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Real Raptors . Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC

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CAD - Engineering - Technical > Carbon frames dxf
 
 
DTM
Senior Heliman
Location: Belgium

Anybody by any chance out there who wants to share dimensions or drawings from frames?

Doesn't hurt to ask. When this new section was started, I expected a little more sharing
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Quote 
Doesn't hurt to ask. When this new section was started, I expected a little more sharing





Everybody got spooked when some of us got ES&D emails from vendors complaining that someone might have stolen their ideas and to cease and desist and please don't generate any G code for anyone else because reverse engineering is a no-no.

I guess no one remembers the Ultimate ass chapping that Dieter Schluter got at the Toledo show one year back in the late 80's by the pre-eminent RE crew in the industry.

I have access to more CNC machines than you can shake a stick at and if I want to copy something no one is going to stop me. I won't be selling it to make a profit and if I want to help someone learn to create G code for CNC's I won't be stopped either.

If the Chinese can do it we can do it too.

Terry
04-03-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
DTM
Senior Heliman
Location: Belgium

I'm not going to do anything with it, it's just for looking at

And btw: RE isn't RE when you implement changes is it?

As an aside: very few of the designs out there have some sort of copywrite or patent on them, so...........
04-04-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Ditto, I agree, once you copy a design and make changes to it--it's a new design. This is how the Japanese did it to us, how the Chinese and Taiwanese are doing it to them and us and ultimately how the next low cost producer will do it.

It's hard to patent a piece of carbon fiber with holes in it.

Terry
04-04-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ichibon_kokojin
Heliman
Location: Euless, Texas

New hole... new design?

After spending over three years fighting to get a patent.
http://rdzyn.com/

Just adding a hole or hanging a curve is fine if the object is covered by a product patent. However a functionality patent covers the use and fuction of a given part or product.

So be careful when you copy... or that 30.00 Original copy could land you in some real trouble.

KoKo
04-23-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cforcht
Key Veteran
Location: Chelsea in BFE Iowa

i think its a bunch of BS. i do RE almost daily since i am the foreman in a job shop. where we reproduce parts for customers that break them and do not want to pay the high prices the factories think they need to get for the repair part. or parts that are no longer available. i also own a full size CNC vertical machining center and do the same thing for local customers in my small town. if you RE it and change it. its yours as far as i am concerned. but dont get bent out of shape when someone does the same thing to you. i have made billet parts for my helis and toyed with the idea of making them and selling them but i dont want it to become a business. i like making the one or 2 parts and the ones that are really challenging. production isnt my idea of fun. my 2 cents
05-02-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

cforcht

Couldn't agree more. The first few are fun, the rest are work.

Terry
05-02-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cforcht
Key Veteran
Location: Chelsea in BFE Iowa

i have a raptor pic for you all but i found i cant post it til moday so i guess it will have to wait.
05-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
cforcht
Key Veteran
Location: Chelsea in BFE Iowa

work in progress

i have uploaded a pic (assuming it is in my gallery) of the frame im building for my raptor 50 its a working prototype but there are revisions that ive made in autocad but havent cut new parts yet. the alignment of everything is excellent. im taking a break before i cut the new frames. actually im trying to get my CNC mill to accept an upgrade card but so far its not liking it. the motor mounts on the proto are hideous but will be fixed in the revision. after i get all the bugs ironed out with the proto i will cut them in carbon or G11 i actually have some G11 laying around so it will probably be the first material i do after the aluminum. let me know what you think guys. thanks craig

ps this is the first photo ive tried to upload so sorry if it didnt work and im not sure how to link it to the post so you may have to go hunt for it.
i think i found it.



heres a newer pic of the finished product
05-11-2004 Over year old.
 
 
RC_Pile-it
Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

Quote 
The first few are fun, the rest are work.


AMEN!! We have some Hummingbuird frames that we are cutting with the intention of trying to sell a few. Afer investing all the time to learn g code and set up the program we thought it would be nice to be able to make a few bucks for the "RC Fund".

It's turning out that the programming was the most fun part of the project. To sell the things you have to advertise, email, PM, write directions, answer questions, ship, track expenses, shedule machine time, cut parts, pack parts, and still work a regular job! This is too much like work!
05-11-2004 Over year old.
 
 
cforcht
Key Veteran
Location: Chelsea in BFE Iowa

i havent decided whether or not im going to sell these or not. its more of a challenge to me and i love a challenge. but the challenge is almost over. actually i started this project becuase i have an Agusta 109A fuselage but the 50 wont quite fit. so i need to stretch her out a bit. once i get the stock components to work its a simple matter to stretch it from there. besides i can use all of these parts on my 30 when i stretch the 50. selling them hasnt been ruled out yet i just havent decided i want ANOTHER job in addition to what i do now.
05-11-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

cforcht

What equipment are you running?

Terry
05-11-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cforcht
Key Veteran
Location: Chelsea in BFE Iowa

TMoore
when you ask what equipment. what specifically are you asking about. the cad the cam or the machine? or something else.

the cad is Autocad 2000
the cam is mastercam V9.1
the machine is a full size CNC Ooya vertical mill. with Fanuc 6M-B control with 20 tool magazine and 5000 rpm spindle. and 4th axis capability.

my friend tells me i have a really big and expensive hobby knife when referring to the mill. i guess in a way hes right.
05-12-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

I've seen the Ooya's before and the 6MB had the yellow cap Fanuc DC motors. Good machines. They can make anything that a growing boy could want for a model helicopter.

Terry
05-12-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cforcht
Key Veteran
Location: Chelsea in BFE Iowa

i bought this mill from work because the boss decided he was going to be the mill operator/programmer and the other mill we have has conversational on it that he can run but hes lost when it comes to g/m code. so he decided it was going out the door which was fine by me so i bought it. so far its paid for itself in about 6 months. i just added a bigger memory card 2 days ago and finally got all the parameters right so now it works again. i had some problems with large programs when i got into doing some large 3d surfaces. the programs were just too big for the memory and drip feed is a pain in the ass sometimes. but thats not a problem now.


Craig
05-12-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Conversationals are OK for some parts but Gcode is the way to go. If I wanted CNC's to do programming I wouldn't need a PC. It is expensive to keep on updating PC's in CNC controllers just to keep up with the latest memory requirements as file sizes get bigger.

Fanuc 6's don't support fast DNC transfers and don't process very fast either. In short they are not spectacular for 3D.

Fortunately for us, heli parts aren't particularly complicated. As I have explained many times, cutting parts isn't very hard, nor is the programming, holding them is the challenge.

Terry
05-12-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cforcht
Key Veteran
Location: Chelsea in BFE Iowa

i would agree holding them without damaging them or losing hold of them is the biggest problem. and no the 6M is not a rocket but it gets done what i need it to do. the 3d stuff i do isnt really complicated but but takes a big machine to do it. the milltronics mills we have at work just arent stought enough to take the kinda of cuts my Ooya can. she might not be the fastest mill on the block but shes solid. besides it wasnt really meant to do small parts. i cant complain i only gave 8k for it and its already paid me back. and the parts i make arent for production and i usually only make small quantities so it doesnt have to be lightning fast. my motto is it will get done when its done.

Craig
05-12-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

I sell Milltronics, Daewoo, Bridgeport and several other lines. You are right, the Mtrnx machines are light but easy to progam and will still run G-code. For what they are, they work OK.

Nothing beats a box way, heavy duty rock crusher like a Daewoo with a Fanuc control. The Fanuc 6's were some of their most reliable controls.

Terry
05-12-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cforcht
Key Veteran
Location: Chelsea in BFE Iowa

i didnt know you sell milltronics. they are a good machine for lighter work. but they will take some abuse. i know, we do it daily. we put stuff on those machines that have no business being on there but thats the way it is in a job shop "whatever it takes to get he parts made" but i does have its price. it beats up the machine pretty quikly. we have a RH-25 and a Vm-17 and we run the **** out of them. they are easy to work with once you learn the convo but i prefer my beast because it has personality. LOL the only thing id say id change on mine is maybe a faster spindle. or a newer control. one that can process a little faster. i looked into retro fit but damn that gets pricy in a hurry. unless you can do the install yourself and then its still gonna be about 7k. oh well maybe someday i will get a newer machine but for now im content.

Craig
05-13-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

There is no way to come out on a retrofit. The Japanese iron was always meant to be disposable. There wouldn't be a market otherwise.

The Mtrnx machines run G-Code just fine. I just never cared for conversational on any machine tool. Old habits die hard sometimes.

Terry
05-13-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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