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Thunder Power RC . Real Raptors . Mikado Modellhubschrauber

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CAD - Engineering - Technical > G-Code - More Fins
 
 
RC_Pile-itHeliman - Location: Chicago, IL -
Well, hopefully I won't get in trouble for this one.

I drew up some more fins that I would like to make real. The first set is sized to fit a Raptor 30. The paper mock-up fit well and looked pretty good. The second set is a mini version of the Raptor set and is sized to fit a Hornet.

I drew 2 versions of the horizontal for each. I'll probably go with the more aggressive looking one, but I posted the other in case anyone was interested.

Could somebody please run these through one of those magical little G-code programs for me?

For anyone interested, the files are drawn in metric (mm) and are drawn for a 1/8" tool.

Thanks for the help,
George

Raptor Vertical
Raptor Horizontal #1
Raptor Horizontal #2

Hornet Vertical
Hornet Horizontal #1
Hornet Horizontal #2


Raptor


Raptor


Raptor



Hornet


Hornet


Hornet
02-26-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

George,

Try this link: http://www.ezcam.com/web/tour/tour.htm

I sell EZ Mill, FeatureCam and several other brands of CAM software and this is the quickest way that I know to get free Gcode from a CAM system. If this doesn't work for you, I can create just about any format you may need.

Terry
02-26-2004 Over year old.
 
 
JCadwell
Key Veteran
Location: Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

How thick is your stock? What feed rates do you want? Can you email a file as a DXF? I'll help you out with some code if you need. Thanks, John Cadwell

Thanks, John Cadwell
02-26-2004 Over year old.
 
 
RC_Pile-it
Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

TMoore:

Wow! Thanks for the link. We tried it this afternoon but the program stopped in the milling machine. I'm pretty sure we did something wrong with the tool paths and what side of the line we were on. I'm going to try a few things and see what I can learn.

JCadwell:

One thing I learned for sure is that it's not magic after all. This is pretty hard. I'll email a couple of the files to you.

Thanks,
George
02-27-2004 Over year old.
 
 
RC_Pile-it
Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

Quote 

Hi RC_Pile-it,

I will make this official request to you this one time to remove this drawing, and refrain from copying any and all trademarked Mr Carbon designs. Please respect our design and intellectual properties. I would like to please have a response from you regarding this request at your earliest convenience.

Thank you,

Joseph Ginski
MS Composit USA and Mr Carbon.





At the request of Mr. Ginski I am removing the link to the DXF files for the Raptor fins. Apparently my drafting skills hit a little too close to the mark for his liking. The "trademarked" fins that he is referring to are pictured below. Admittedly it does bear a very strong resemblance, but it is not identical.

I removed the link simply to avoid a conflict that I would rather not deal with. I'd rather be doing almost anything else. But that does leave a question hanging: How close is too close?

Should I remove the link to the Hornet sized files too? Mr. Ginski doesn't sell a Hornet sized fin set. Am I out of line because the Hornet set I drew "resembles" his Raptor set? I'm not trying to sell them to anyone; I want them for personal use only. Does that make be a bad guy? If it does, let me know and I'll remove the remaining links.

Or am I being strong armed by a guy who is implying legal action if I don't comply with his wishes. He could do it pretty easily I imagine. He likely has more money than me. He does have his own business after all. And he probably has a lawyer too. Most business people have some contact with lawyers as a normal course of business. Poor guy.

Oh well, I made myself feel so bad I decided to take all the links down. The pictures will stay for a little while though. I would like to hear if anyone has an opinion on the subject.

Best regards,
The Copy Guy

02-28-2004 Over year old.
 
 
JCadwell
Key Veteran
Location: Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

Did you cut those? They look really nice.

I can see why he feels the way he does. They do look pretty close. Much closer than that MIA refernece...

One of the fun things about being able to do the work your self is creating unique things. While his work may be an inspiration, take the oppurtunity to make it different, and work with your own themes. Then nobody can comment. I'll admit to having pulled the dimensions off of my MinAir SE to make sideframes, but all I kept the same were the bolt holes, because that makes things line up. You get to make fun stuff that is different, and can change it to your liking.

Thanks, John Cadwell
02-28-2004 Over year old.
 
 
CDN Marvin
Heliman
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

I just looked at the Mr. Carbon web site, but did not see the Raptor fins that look like the ones in the above post. Anyone have the link to them?
02-28-2004 Over year old.
 
 
helinut
Senior Heliman
Location: Snohomish, WA

Not to start a flame war but it seems to me plagiarism is quite common in the heli industry, and not just by us one of, for personal use guys.
02-28-2004 Over year old.
 
 
DTM
Senior Heliman
Location: Belgium

Found them

I found his fin set and I must say they look pretty similar. Never saw anything about trademark though.


http://www6.mailordercentral.com/he...em=10&mitem=109
02-28-2004 Over year old.
 
 
RC_Pile-it
Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

Just to be perfectly clear, the black and white drawings are mine, the carbon fiber picture is the MrCarbon fin set. I didn't cut those.

So if we talk about inspiration, what about the Hornet set? I could say it was "inspired" by the Raptor set and is unique because it doesn't exist elsewhere. Much like John's side frames. The difference is I put mine here.
02-28-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Joe contacted me too, and my feeling is that copying is not kosher. Having said that, if you change the lines, a rad a curve, a pocket or holes and make them your own, that's fine. Use the plastic fins as a guide and draw them yourself. If you are going to make flat frames, use the aluminum or CF frames as a template and make them yourself. If you sell them as a commercial venture, you are on your own.

This is how LB at Bergen got started and many more. Even some prominent heli manufacturers have a great Xerox based engineering department.

At this point in time if it had been me I probably would have waited until these copied fins got to the market. By the time our chinese friends crank it up there won't be anything left but the crying towels, with a Made in China label on them.

Terry
02-28-2004 Over year old.
 
 
tauscnc
Veteran
Location: IL : www.cuttingedgecnc.c om

How are some copying exactly the same part of the Hornet heli and remaking them in aluminum and getting away with it. From what I can tell, they are making money off of MS's work. How does that work? Do they have a contract? I realize they might now but what about in the beginning when we where seeing exact copies of the heads in aluminum, exact copy of the mainshaft in steel etc.

For other helis, how about the raptor, how many copied parts are out there? How about the head of the PHI heli and the X-Cell? Looks to be almost the same to me. How about the Centruy Hawks mechical layout (hirobo copy?) and the head (X-Cell copy?). How about the.....

I don't think copying anyones work is a good way to go as JCadwell pointed out. However, I thing if you change something by like 7% then your outside of any patent. This could include a new curve, new hole, new cut. I remember talking with X-Cell guys at a hobby show many many years ago and asking them about copied parts and they told me they would have to patent every piece on their heli and that would be to expensive. Instead they spend the money on making a top notch heli.

If you want to make them for personal use I don't see a problem. The problem is when its posted on a newsgroup. I think it was very respectfull of you to take down the links. As mentioned, change the outline, add a hole here or there, and then they are "yours." It can get tough as there are only so many fin designs, chassie desings and rotor head desings. Either way, it will be more fun for you and less stressful for both parties.

taus
www.cuttingedgecnc.com
03-29-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
psawya
Key Veteran
Location: Pyongtaek, Korea

I love a good debate.......
Trademarks protect the name or logo etc....
Quote 
From the ipwatchdog.com website:
General speaking, trademarks perform four functions that are deserving of protection in the courts:

To identify one seller's goods and distinguish them from goods sold by others;

To signify that all goods bearing the trademark come from or are controlled by a single, albeit anonymous, source;

To signify that all goods bearing the trademark are of an equal level of quality; and

As a prime instrument in advertising and selling the goods.



A patent provides protection for the goods themselves from being copied:

Quote 
The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, “the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling” the invention in the United States or “importing” the invention into the United States. What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention.

United States patent laws are codified at Title 35 of the United States Code.

04-15-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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GrandRC . CanoMod . Futaba-RC

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CAD - Engineering - Technical > G-Code - More Fins
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