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Aerial Photography and Video > New Gyro Stabilization Idea !!!
 
 
GeorgeM
Senior Heliman
Location: Malta, Europe

By visiting a couple of fora, and viewing videos of helis doing 3D,
one can arrive to a conclusion that the new breed of SMM gyros are bloody
good... namely the GY-401 and all the above specd gyros. You can see them doing
full power climbouts, and tail first backwards maneuvers, and the tail
never seems to sway. This is a combination of a powerful Tailrotor, a good
gyro and a fast tail servo.

Here comes the interesting bit:

If I were to have a 3 axis camera mount or gymbal and mount 3 complete tail rotor assemblies( all with a small brushless motor driving the Tailrotor through a belt ( or whatever), with a fast servo and a good gyro matched to the system) in an XYZ fashion, each one controling roll, pan and tilt, you could have the full potential of the current gyro technology. I would for now, remove the effect of
downdraught caused by the main rotor of a model helicopter... although I
think it is irrelevant considering how 3d helis perfectly control
backwards and sideways flight.

This arrangement would provide the benefits of having a very strong and
very fast lock on a heading ( just like a 3d heli ) with the camera
remaining pointed at infinity.... all this if there is no physical
restraint from the heli carrier itself...ie.. the gimbals should be
totally allowed to pivot freely.

Do you like this ??? I think it'll work nicely

Now for the next step.

IF you, an extrovert PIC expert ;-) , can build a PIC project ... an emulator for
a tail rotor system...

That is... A tail rotor IMHO is a constant power applied to a propellor
with a variable pitch mounted on a tail boom. when the gyro senses even a
small movement, you can see that the fast servo moves a large amount at
first, the tail rotor pitch increases/decreases, the tail starts moving
( here we have some inertia, when the tail is approaching the new heading
the tail servo goes to slightly negative value of the previous amount to
stop the tail inertia from moving bringing a sudden dampened stop to the
system. It's very hard to explain in words what seems clear in my mind

If one can manage to either design a new gyro, to reprogram a gyro pic to tune the PID loop to a camera gimbal, or else insert a PIC to mimic the tail responce, on can place the gyro on the actual axis that is being actuated by the gyro
itself for a closed loop performance .... ( just like on a heli, but now without the three tail rotors stickling out

I don't know if you have tried to experiment with gyros placed on the actual
actuated axis... there is a severe positive oscillation which ruins the
stabilization if the gain is turned up so that some stabilization starts to happen.

My experiments have only worked to a limited satisfaction,
only if the gyro is mounted outside the actuated axis (ie.. mechanically, one step axis up from the actuated axis itself ... if you know what i mean !! )

Any comments about this idea ? Any PIC experts wanna do a Tail dynamics emulator ?

George from sunny Malta !!

Picture describtion
http://www.rc-cam.com/forum/index.p...ype=post&id=761
11-28-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
HM16 Seahawk
Senior Heliman
Location: Fenton, Michigan - USA

Multi Axis Gimballed Gyro

George,
It took me a minute, but I understand what you are talking about, especially after looking at your picture.
I worked on automatic flight control systems (AFCS) for Sea Stallion helicopters, minesweepers that had to fly very precisely, and what you described is a multi-gimballed gyro. This device, or similar devices in other aircraft, are also used as the reference for the "all attitude indicator"...the instrument that is half white, half black, looks like a little ball inside the instrument. This "ball" stays in place, from inputs from the mgg previously mentioned and would be the same, in your example, as the camera platform.
So, your basic idea is similar to something that has been done. If someone were to go to the expence of getting a platform to lockdown in all three axis, I would think you would replace your multi-tailrotor with some fast servos. The multigimballed gyro, made small enough for our size helos, I would think would be prohibitively expensive to produce, but you never know.
Regards
11-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ELOSSAM
Veteran
Location: Es

What is supposed to be the yellow circles and the violet links on the picture? three rotor and three tail simulating the motion they can dampen?
11-28-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
GeorgeM
Senior Heliman
Location: Malta, Europe

Hi..

I think this is going to be a long post from me, but perhaps it will enable me to explain with some physical examples.

The round ball with the hole in front is a representation of the camera covering bubble ala wescam. The three purple pipes and the greenish disks are 3 identical tail booms + tail rotors respectively from a helicopter kit. They each have a brushless motor turning the tail rotor through a belt or torque tube arraingement. Whatever you like !!!

If one has ever experimented with heading hold gyros, even if there is no torque from the main rotor, one can observe that they will stay where they are unless a commanded force acts upon it....Either you from the TX or else wind/physical force. If the latter is exerted, the HH gyro will try to correct it and go back to where it was.

To see this, if you have a small electric heli with a HH gyro, take the complete rotorhead off, and suspend the model from a string so that the model balances horizontally. Run it up. You will see that the tail will remain pointing to where it was.

Now multiply your mini heli x3 and stick eaxh one 90deg away from each other... XYZ axis. each tail will control the movement of the gimbal init's axis. If wind or any other force acts on the thing, the gyros will compensate. I have tried this while repairing on of my logo20's. I ran it up without the head.. only the mainshaft and tail assy. I can tell you that if you try to change the direction to what the heli is pointing at, you'll have to fight against a fierce tail rotor

That's how this idea started creeping in my mind !

The structure should have a 3 axis gymbal so that the ball is left free to rotate in any axis. But to understand this method without going into the real world of how to actually build it and let those tailpipes free to go in all axis, that's another matter to solve.

Having the sort of performance of a Gy401 and digi fast servo is an asset, and you'll eliminate the drift problems encountered with previous HH gyros.

Why complicate it so much....you might ask ??? There are systems from JohnC of CARVEC , Rotomotion, and others that have developed and almost perfected this stabilization in 3 axis in the model scale. I would like to purchase both systems to play with, but I have budget restrictions. Therefore I am still striving to solve this with as little outlay as possible, using off the shelf components.

A GY401 was painstraikingly designed to function so well in a model helicopter with the dynamics of the tail rotor working in air.

If you try to mount the gyro directly on a camera gymbal platform, you will notice fast oscillations. If you add delay, you will have somewhat lower frequency oscillations ( time untill the delayed signal passes to the servo ). However a gyro system works well where it's intended...on a helicopter !!!!!


What is needed is therfore for a more practical system ( to take out those tailrotors) is a normal 3 axis gymbal. A gyro sitting direcly on the chassis (gymbal ) it is moving / controling , a fast servo ( to react instantly and correct) and a little circuit in between !!!

This circuit...being a PIC or any other microcontroller or discrete components, will emulate the dynamics of a tail rotor......... ( wow ..... what a study in itself this is.... try going to http://www.unicopter.com/ and look for tail dynamics article....even do a search on google !! )

If we have this circuit emulating the tail rotor PID or characteristics, the servo can be used to directly control the same axis that is carrying the respective gyro ( trough a reduction ratio or directly if you have very powerful and fast servos ).
And this can be repeated for the 3 axis of a gimbal, thus eliminating the cumbersome tailbooms and tail rotors in the diagram link above.

Is there anywhere I have gone wrong ???

What I intend to do... or need help in , is the tail emulating circuitry. This will enable me/us to take those imaginary 3 tailbooms off the gymbal, and replace with the more conventional servo and gearbox....BUTTT with the gyro sitting on the respective actuated axis itself...thereby having tight close loop performance...( just like on a Vigor or Fury doing Fast 3D backwards and the tail remains solid !! )

I would like the Programming Gurus and those who have done stabilization experimentation to comment on this and point where I could be wrong.

As a sideplate argument, one can always have large mechanical gyros like Airfoilhelicam's, but to carry 3 of those, and the ascociated control of them, you'll need an R-Max by yamaha !!!

I am happy to have shared this with all of you. think it carefully. I would like to receive feedback.

I know this little essay will help clear things up a bit !!!

hope to hear comments !!

Best Wishes

George
11-28-2003 Over year old.
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