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CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

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e-Electric Motors & Controllers > Electric Motor Theory
 
 
airwolf
Senior Heliman
Location: Hanna, Alberta, Canada

I don't know anything about electrics, but I think I am gradually learning. Am I correct in saying that elctric motors cannot overspeed like fuel fired motors can with a lack of load. It seems that whatever I do to the thottle curve of my Hornet, I don't have to worry about blowing the motor up. I have came to the conclusion that if you want more head RPM, you either increase the voltage of the battery pack or install a larger pinion.

This may be a stupid question, but am I on the right track here.

Thanks...

Dave
11-09-2003 Over year old.
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Glenn in Den
Key Veteran
Location: Longmont, Colorado area

Trying hard to remember motor shop in high school . . . .

A series wound motor WILL overspeed until it disitergrates. These motors are capable of amazing torque and their speed is only limited by the load. Series wound motors are used on railroad trains.

I'm not sure what types of motors our R/C models use but I've not heard of any "runaway problems."
11-09-2003 Over year old.
 
 
trevorz
Senior Heliman
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

Dave,

It's not overspeed you need to be worried about, but current draw and heat. Electric motors are made of small wires wound up inside, either on the armature for brushed motors, or on the can for brushless. If you try and pump too much power through them, the wires will get too hot and burn up.

So there is a limit to how much voltage you can put to a motor, and what size pinion you can put on it. It's all about balance and finding the maximum efficiency point of the motor, i.e. where the motor gives you the most horsepower and torque for the least use of electrons.

If you unload a motor, you will usually not harm it, unless the bearings or bushings get too hot and sieze, or you may melt the brushes in a brushed motor setup.

In your micro, just like any other heli, overspeeding it, say during a decent, may not really hurt the motor, but don't forget about all the other items in the drive train.
11-10-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Siado
Senior Heliman
Location: Port Orchard, WA

I haven't played with electrics since college, but I work on some very large machines for a living...somewhere to the tune of 15,000 lb rotors on these things. Rotors are constructed one of two ways: Salient pole or Turbo rotors. The pole of the rotor is the protrusion from the shaft which the windings are wound around. On a salient pole rotor, the pole pieces are fitted to the shaft by way of a dovetail fit. This means that under excessive RPM, the contrifugal force can cause the pole pieces to separate from the shaft. On a Turbo rotor, the pole pieces are machined as one piece with the rest of the rotor, giving it its name since it can withstand much higher RPM. I honestly couldn't tell you which way our little model motors are made, but I would imagine for cost reasons, they are Salient pole designs.

Even if they are turbo rotors, the windings themselves are epoxied in place around the pole pieces to hold them in place. At high RPMs, the epoxy could loosen or crack, allowing a few turns of copper to move outward. This could cause enough imbalance in the rotor for it to eat itself.

Fortunately, under load, most series wound, cumulatively compound wound, and and differentially compound wound (whew!) DC machines have what is known as a "pull-out" torque at which the machine will speed up so far it cannot generate enough torque to continue to speed up. However, if you are raising the voltage, then you are moving that value much higher than designed.

As trevorz said, the biggest concern is the heat dissipation capability. Most machines are capable of handling up to 150% rated load for up to 5 minutes with no effects. However, overheating the windings could also cause the epoxy to break down, weakening the strength of the rotor overall.

This may all be useless theory, but just things to keep in mind when pushing the limits.
11-10-2003 Over year old.
 
 
airwolf
Senior Heliman
Location: Hanna, Alberta, Canada

Good stuff to know although, and it also gives me a better understanding of the DC motors we use on our Dragline. Here is a picture of it. I work at a coal strip mine and run a Dragline that we pump 7000 volts AC into, that transformed down to a voltage that runs a large AC motor cranking a bunch of DC generators which power DC motors that run fields that we can control. These DC motors will only go so fast, limited by probably the voltage thrown at them like you guys are talking here. Seems to be much the same.

Any more stuff??? I'm liking this!!

Dave
11-10-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Silvashadow
Senior Heliman
Location: Bexley, Kent, UK

Airwolf,

If you want more motor theory try the link below. Not to do with helis but relevent just the same.
http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/rpwr/rmtr.html
11-12-2003 Over year old.
 
 
rscamp
Veteran
Location: Ontario, Canada

"Am I correct in saying that elctric motors cannot overspeed like fuel fired motors can with a lack of load."

Yes! For the permanent magnet brushed and brushless motors we use to power our models, you are absolutely correct. The speed the motor runs under no load is the specific speed, abbreviated Kv. This speed is never exceeded because torque approaches zero as the specific speed is approached.

This is a fundamental difference between IC engines and electric motors used in models that most people overlook when comparing the two.

You are smarter than you thought!

Rob
11-12-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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