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e-Minicopter Joker > Battery advice

Qrrambero
Veteran
Location: San Francisco / Bay Area

Hello Joker Owners;
As you I do own a Joker and I need some help with the Li po batteries.
I have heard about them and I would like your input . What does it work for the Joker, Are they sold as a set or two sets I need to buy ? Who does sell them, price.
And finally are you happy with the investment ?
I know I am asking to many questions, but right know I am not happy with my Joker, no with the machine. just with the batteries, if I do a roll here and there and a loop, I get 3 minutes, maximun 4 if i hover and do nose in and gentle fly I get 5 to 6 minutes. And few times batteries had quit before time I have been lucky, and autoroted it safely. Now I am affraid to fly it to far and honestly I am not enjoy it.
Thanks for your help.
Alvaro
PS.. I do have sanyo Ni cad 2400

11-08-2003 Over year old.

Vinnie
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami Beach, Florida

well

You need Lithium Polymer:

Thunder Power Dynamic Power Lithium Polymer cells

I get over 25 minutes in a Bionic, you should be getting similar times.

11-09-2003 Over year old.

helinut
Senior Heliman
Location: Snohomish, WA

Vinnie, What packs are you using I did not see one that would replace the 32 cell 2*16?

11-09-2003 Over year old.

helinut
Senior Heliman
Location: Snohomish, WA

I looked at previous messages and found that the (2) 5S4P packs are being used. Not sure I am ready to spend $750 for 1 flight pack. On the other hand I have not flown my joker in over a year due to the anemic flight time I was getting on Nicads.

11-09-2003 Over year old.

Qrrambero
Veteran
Location: San Francisco / Bay Area

Anemic is the correct word. That is why I would like to try the Li Po, but I need to now if I buy one set or two, to make the 32 that I have know. Plus I do no t want to get them and suddenly they do not fix in the battery holder.
Vinnie if I call Thunder Power Do they know the right battery? Does this company know about the Joker dimensions and needs ?

11-09-2003 Over year old.

East Coast Scale
Key Veteran
Location: Taxachussetts

Check these new packs out at
http://www.joker-usa.com/new.htm
Joe

11-12-2003 Over year old.

John Tz
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

Tanic Lipo- questions for Joe

Hi Joe,

What is the size of that battery? Is it possible to stack two of them together to get an 8800 mah set? Can the 4400's handle 70 amp draw at peak and about 30-40 constant? can the actronic controller handle the 11 cell voltage?

Sorry about all of the questions, but I have been researching a lipo set for my Joker for a while and these look promissing.

Best,
John

11-13-2003 Over year old.

East Coast Scale
Key Veteran
Location: Taxachussetts

I have a couple of test flights on this pack. According to Kohler, no problem with the voltage for the speed controller or motor with the 11 cell count. After the test flights, the pack was luke warm, the speed controller the same, and the motor around 110. That was after 10 minutes of just full power climbouts with the pack. There was an increase of my head speed from 1550-1700 just by plugging the pack in. My throttle is set for 65% opening at half stick to 100% full stick. I just kept pounding the full throttle take offs for 3-5 seconds, then glide down and do it again. No decrease in rpm's until after the 9 min mark on the pack, and after 11 minutes, my rpm's were back to the 1550 rpm, and i landed the heli not wanting to further drain the battery. On recharge, it started at 39.4 volts, taking in 4465maH, and a finish voltage of 46.2
It also is configured to fit in the stock battery location with a couple of simple mods. The pack also only weighs 2 lbs, as opposed to the 4.5 that the nickel metal 32 cell pack weighs. We do have a 10S3P configuration for this battery which fits in the stock location, and is 6600 mah.
Joe

11-13-2003 Over year old.

John Tz
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

Joe,

Thanks for the update...what are the simple mods required to fit the battery? What are the dimensions of the battery? What is the weight and dimension of the10s3p 6600?

My setup is a 24-4 motor with a 24 tooth pinion and 30 cells of UM3000. I get a 4.5 min - 3D blast with about 1650 headspeed. I am looking to at least double that.

Since this is an11S, maybe the current draw will be less and the 4400 may give me the duration I want.

11-13-2003 Over year old.

Vinnie
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami Beach, Florida

wtf

Holy **** 40 volts, way out of my league!

11-13-2003 Over year old.

East Coast Scale
Key Veteran
Location: Taxachussetts

First, i turn the bolts around on the front bottom tray section in the heli, so the nuts are on the outside. Do this to all four. I then put one accucap on the top, and one on the bottom. They are trimmed so only the flat part sticks to the pack, in other words, i cut off the sides. I redrilled one hole in the frames right under the pinion of the heli so one retainer pin goes through and holds the pack in place. The battery itself looks like two packs of smokes end to end, around 7 inches long, and weighs two pounds. CG is not an issue as it works out well in the front of the heli with only 1/2" of the pack sticking out front.
Joe

11-13-2003 Over year old.

edg
Senior Heliman
Location: San Francisco, CA

Hey Alvaro, Long time no see!

I've been stocking up on LiPo's lately and basically you want something like a 10s4p or possibly 9s4p pack. What I've used so far is 3s4p + 3s4p + 4s4p packs in series in my Joker/500D. I get 15+ minutes of hover easy and tons of power throughout.. My test hovering, which I stopped after 15 minutes, the batteries were just warm and I still had 2000mAhs left in the packs. Right now I've got 2 4s4p packs and 3 3s4p packs. That's so I can fly both the Joker and my Electric Raptor at the field if I want.

I haven't been flying much recently as I really backlogged on building projects

Swing by sometime!

-ed-

11-13-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Qrrambero
Veteran
Location: San Francisco / Bay Area

Ed...Finally.
I did call you and left a message while ago, I Email you and you were going to go to Hawai, I invited you to Dumbarton and you said yes I will Email you, and that was the last time I heard from you.
I asked myself maybe is because I run out of Cuban cigars.
I would like to see your batteries and see how the preform.
You are the pioneer with the Electric Helis in the Bay area and your advise is welcome.
Joe I will Email you regarding price for this batteries. Perhaps you listed it your web page.
Thanks for all this info.
I am tire to fly scare this Joker. Always thinking that is going to run out of juice @ the worse moment.

11-14-2003 Over year old.

edg
Senior Heliman
Location: San Francisco, CA

You called!? I never got the message. Plus I don't read my home email anymore as I get about 200 SPAM's per day now on it

.

Anyway, if you go to Dumbarton let me know. Like I said, I haven't been flying much. Been working on putting my Raptor in a Long Ranger, Eco8 in a Jet Ranger and rebuilding my BELL 47 from scratch after a crash. I also had to completely rebuild the Joker 500D after a crash (I had a bad week). Also by the end of the month I should have the NH-90 kit in for my JetCopter. Too much building!

Anyway, I got my batteries from Esprit Models. I'm not sure how big they have the packs (9 or 10s4p). I wanted smaller ones to use in different helis, plus I got plenty of room in the 500D fuse. I don't know if you can fit 2 smaller packs in series in the Joker frame.

11-14-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

helinut
Senior Heliman
Location: Snohomish, WA

I just purchased a set of lipo's from Thundetpower and then seen the add from Vario. I'm excited to use the packs from Thunderpower, but think the 4400 mah 40V pack from Vario may be the way to go. It is at least 1.5 LBS lighter and at 10-12 minutes is about the limit of my concentration $950 v's 750 probably is worth the performance gain with the lighter battery. Considering you would get 2 packs for the 950 and one could be charging while you are flying. Looking for input.

11-16-2003 Over year old.

Qrrambero
Veteran
Location: San Francisco / Bay Area

Helinut . I have a friend that has that name in his license plate here in CA.
I did call few hobby shops that sell the Li Pos and they came with the same answer. For the Joker you need the 8000 mah. That is the group that it is advise to purchase. Why? Let this guys here give us the answer. I know there is more mah.
What does it means. that if I get 10 minutes with Joe's batteries, I will get 20 with the 8000. or just 5 more minutes... More RPM., more autority.. ??????????
Qrrambero

11-18-2003 Over year old.

edg
Senior Heliman
Location: San Francisco, CA

Alvaro,

I'd go with the highest mAh you can get. Mine are 7800's so the 8000's
aren't much different. I think Helinut is suggesting you save weight with the 4400's at the expense of capacity. But, even if you get the 8000s you'll likely be less weight than your current NiCds/Nimhs, 3 times the capacity, and as much, if not more, power in voltage. That translates into a minimum of 10 minutes of aggressive flight and likely much longer.

No brainer if you ask me. Go for the 8000s.

11-18-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

helinut
Senior Heliman
Location: Snohomish, WA

I will let you know I ordered one of the Vario packs. So I will evaluate performance vs flight time between the 8200MAH 10 cell pack VS the 4400 MAH 11 cell pack.

11-18-2003 Over year old.

John Tz
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

There is a thread on E-Zone electric helicopter forum that gives a good look at the 4400 cells. They seem to be just a little too small in capacity for the current draw of the Joker. At the end of 8 min flights the temps were at 165. Just on the hot side (by at least 20 degrees) in my opinion. The better setup with the Tanics seems to be a 11s3p pack. maybe the best combination of capacity/voltage/weight.

The TP 10s3p have been proven to provide awesome performance in many machines so far. Can't go wrong with these.

11-18-2003 Over year old.

helinut
Senior Heliman
Location: Snohomish, WA

I guess it depends on what your looking for. I just read the thread on the Tantric in the Joker. I thought it was some what upbeat. The results are about what I would expect. Though I still need to do more research on the termonology used with Lipoly's.

Has anyone tried them with the 24/4 23 tooth combo yet?

I did test fly my Joker on the 10S4P pack yesterday with the 24/4-23 and it seemed to have plenty of power. Only flew for 6 minutes as suggested in the instructions for the first flight. It used 2200 MAH.

I received an email from Gerd yesterday apparently Actronic has upgrade the controller to ver A18 which solves the spin up problem with a softer start. I wonder how that affects a bail out during an auto?

11-18-2003 Over year old.

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e-Minicopter Joker > Battery advice

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