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E-flite . Next D . Fast Lad Performance

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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Pirouetting Flip
 
 
Avropilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

Ok what am I doing wrong? I start with the pirouette then roll the cyclic in the direction of the pirouette along with some collective.I cant seem to get it to flip over,what am I doing wrong?
03-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
beedub
Senior Heliman
Location: Arlington, Tx

Avropilot,

First break down the manuever. Picture it in your head or grab something to imitate it with. If you are piro'ing to the right you will need to go counter clockwise (against the piro). When I first started thinking about doing them I used a pencil while sitting at my desk at work. This allowed me to slowly move and see what I needed to do. I highly recommend trying to keep a hovering piro first then work on moving it around in a controled fashion. This will help your orientation once you start doing your first piro flips.
03-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

If you pirouete to the left then you need to stir the cyclic to the right in a circular fashion.

The idea is to keep your swashplate titled towards the flipping direction while you pirouete. That's why the stirring motion and the sync between the piro rate and the stirring rate are required.

In other words if while you pirouete you stirr the cyclics at the same rate then the swashplate is always tilted towards a certain direction that happens to be the direction your disc is flipping towards.

After you achieve that then the only thing you need to add is give it pitch up or down as the disc flips just the same way you would if you were simply doing flips.


Augusto

Avant Aurora Ultimate
04-01-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Avropilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

AHHHH I get it ColeopTer. I cant wait till tommorow. I now see exactly what I was doing wrong. ""The idea is to keep your swashplate titled towards the flipping direction while you pirouete"" Now I can understand how it works.Kind of like picking a point in space and keeping the swash angled in that direction throughout the pirouette.KOOL!!!! I'm soooo excited !!(I've been trying with not much success for about two weeks.They would flip over sometimes but other times they didnt look like Pirouetting flips but more like Kamakaze Rolls


04-01-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

"Kind of like picking a point in space and keeping the swash angled in that direction throughout the pirouette"

EXACTLY!

You got it.
Now go out there and get dizzy!


Augusto

Avant Aurora Ultimate
04-01-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jeffscholl
Key Veteran
Location: Whitefish, MT

I've been trying to break down video's but i'm still stumped on the transition of each cyclic axis as compared to piroutte rate.

For each 90 deg the tail completes do I transistion the cyclic?

ex...(left rudder for pirroutte)
intial start with foward cyclic
90 deg tail movement - right cyclic
90 deg tail movement - back cyclic
90 deg tail movement - left cyclic
and so on....

or do you go for 180, 360..or maybe this all doesn't make sense...

also I've been trying to count in my head for timing when I see the tail go through a fixed point, but oh so hard for my wittle head ;-)

cheers....jeff
04-05-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

It is a constant motion. You don't return the sticks to center until your done. You make a circle with the right (cyclic) stick.

So you are right about this:
intial start with foward cyclic
90 deg tail movement - right cyclic
90 deg tail movement - back cyclic
90 deg tail movement - left cyclic

but it needs to be smoothed out. So for example at 45 degrees you have both forward and right cyclic. For a 360 degree piro, your cyclic will move around center stick 360 degrees. Then you will have the standard piro flip.
04-05-2002 Over year old.
 
 
freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

synchronizing cyclic commands

I started out by thinking in terms of 90 degree increments, as you described above. With practice the transitions get smoother (both in my mind and the helicopter itself). I also reduced my pirouette rate so that it's the same as my roll rate. This feels really slow at first, but it makes everything easier to coordinate.

start tail-in, flip forward with left rudder and ease it to right cyclic

the heli goes to knife-edge, skids in, pointing left, ease to aft cyclic

the heli goes inverted, tail-in, ease from aft to left cyclic

the heli goes knife-edge, skids out, pointing right, ease from left for forward cyclic

the heli gets upright and tail-in again

The start side-in or nose-in, etc.

The idea of using full rudder stick deflection with low rates is an idea that Curtis Y shared at a fun-fly a couple years ago. He was (maybe still is?) gradually increasing the rudder ATVs (and thus the pirouette rate) over time as his comfort level increased, with the goal of eventually getting the piro rate up to where the heli is a blur. There's a couple advantages to holding maximum input. With modern gyros, it means that the piro rate will always be consistent, so the cyclic movements will always happen at the same rate. There's no need to adjust the rudder input, so you effectively have only three controls to worry about (collective, fore/aft cyclic, lateral cyclic). Turning up the ATVs over time (or the dual rates, same difference) provides a nice way to push up the difficulty level at whatever pace you're comfortable with.

The only drawback to matching the piro rate with the roll rate is that I've built up some mental reflexes that are triggered by the angle of the heli's rotor disc (which is not the thing you want to be getting your cues from) rather than the heli's heading (which IS the thing you want to be getting your cues from). The reason this is bad is clear when I try to do pirouetting loops where there's multiple pirouettes during a single loop. The orientation cues I was relying on in flips don't help in that case. The heading cues are still there, but without the same orientation cues, it ends up feeling very very different from pirouetting flips. (I hope that made sense....) I had hoped that flipping practice would carry over into looping more than it did. I'm sure it didn't hurt, of course, but I think I'd probably be better off if I'd gone to a higher pirouette rate sooner, so the pirouette rate and the roll rate would not be identical. I have a hard time moving away from that crutch now.

For pirouetting loops, I tend to fall back on 180 degree increments, pulling back while the heli is pointing forward, pushing forward while the heli is moving tail-first. I sometimes make corrections with left or right cyclic, but I mostly avoid lateral cyclic commands during piro loops. This is cheating, but you gotta start somewhere.
04-05-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Avropilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

Thanks for the help guys.I have put the information to use and the results are a spectacle.The Ergo .46 I'm using fly's great so upon initial attempt my new manuver has been named at my local feild not pirouetting flips but kamakaze rolls I have recently purchased an X-Cell Pro and have hopes this machine will be more adequite to perform the flips easier .
04-08-2002 Over year old.
 
 
freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

The new XL is not necessarily going to be easier to tune than the Ergo. Don't blame the Ergo, fix it!
04-09-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
furyextreme
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

its all in your thumbs
05-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
elad
Senior Heliman
Location: beer sheva (in south) israel

LOOK FOR THE PREVIOUS POSTS
there are some animation
I tryed it on G2 and it works great.
05-14-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Pirouetting Flip
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