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XHELI.COM . Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby

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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Pheonix fun fly accident update
 
 
Perry Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

Hello Everyone,


As all of you may have heard already, Dave Neves and Phil Cole were in an
accident while driving back from the Phoenix Funfly this past weekend.
Fortunately, he and Phil are okay and doing well. Phil suffered a cut on
his ear, some scratches and shaken nerves, but is doing fine. Dave is
still in the hospital in Phoenix with a laceration to his head and possible
a cracked vertibraek.


I actually talked with Dave on Monday, March 18. He sounded great but said
he was going to have an MRI done to see if there was any damage to his
vertibrae. As of this morning, the MRI has not come back yet.


We all know that the most important thing is for Dave to have a full
recovery and to get well fast. I am setting up a fund for Dave and his
family to help with the added cost of his family having to fly to Phoenix,
stay in a hotel, etc. I would like to stress though that this is strictly
voluntary. I know that his insurance with replace all of his lost
belongings and material things, but I thought it might, in some small way,
help him and his family. God knows he has always been there to help us in
anyway that he could.


If any of you would like to contribute to this fund, I will be collecting
the funds and delivering them to him in a card with everyone's name,
wishing him well and letting him know that we are all thinking of him.


You can send cash or a check. The check can be made out to me or to Dave
Neves. My address is below.


Perry Kavros
2160 Old Piedmont Rd
San Jose, CA 95132


Thanks very much!


Perry Kavros
03-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Perry Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

I have a pay pal account set up at Pkavros@hotmail.com

Thanks for your support I'm sure Dave will appreciate this.

Perry
03-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
The_Dave
Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Check is on its way!

Come on guys, lets do our part! RunRyder currently has 2114 members, if we gave an average of 10 bucks per member it would be a nice pice of change for Dave to help him get going again.

I am in for C note....who's with me?



Mark McAlpine - 2005 - We will never forget.
03-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCL
Senior Heliman
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

$$ is on the way. richard
03-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
The_Dave
Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

RC Watch

Perry,

I posted your quote on www.rcwatch.com AKA Flight Lines so those fellers are in the loop.

Mark McAlpine - 2005 - We will never forget.
03-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Perry Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

Thank you for posting this Dave we both know that Dave Neves is always going out of his way for people so I thought it was time to give back in a way that he could really use right now.


Perry Kavros
03-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dr.Tim
Key Veteran
Location: Mojave Desert

A Little Help

Sent a Few Dollars to help!! My Prayers are with Dave and his Family!! God Bless them all!!!!!

Dr.Tim

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Starwood Models, Approach Engineering
03-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCL
Senior Heliman
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

Perry - what hospital is Dave in?
03-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Perry Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

Hi Richard,

Sorry I didn't get back to you any earlier. I spoke with Dave this morning and he should be arriving here today sometime if you or anybody would like to e-mail him here it is. Neves.david@ss.loral.com

Thanks Perry
03-21-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCL
Senior Heliman
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

That's a good sign that he's been released. Thanks for keeping us informed. (i'm checking my spelling and grammer after today's thread on this!)
03-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
RCL
Senior Heliman
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

The address you posted was not usable - the mail server at work returned the email i attempted to send with the following error: "the following address has permanent fatal errors". Love these PC operating systems and their descriptive error messages! Do have another address that we can use?
03-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Perry Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

I forgot the D it should be Neves.david@ssd.loral.com

Let me know if that works.

Perry
03-22-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCL
Senior Heliman
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

new email address appears to work - not rejected by mail server so far. Thanks
03-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
sykochin
Senior Heliman
Location: GoWest

Dave;
Our Prayers are with you and the Family!!
Get well soon. We still need you
03-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Perry Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

A Note from Sherry and Dave

Good evening to all our dear family and friends,

We want to thank all of you for your concern, calls, thoughts, and prayers for Dave after his terrible accident on Sunday. As you can imagine, it was such a huge shock when we first heard about the accident, especially since I had only spoken to him a few short hours earlier. It still seems so unreal to me.

After spending these past four days in Saint Joseph's Hospital in Phoenix - so far away from home, family and friends, we are both so happy to be home.

Just to get everyone caught up on Dave's condition, Dave has a 5-6 inch gash on the top of his head that he got from the roof of the truck (we think). It basically cut a large flap of his scalp that needed to be stapled (and yes according to Dave, it felt as bad as it sounds). He has twelve staples in all and a few stitches - so it was quite a huge gash. They shaved his hair where the cut is, but luckily it is growing back quickly. He has two black eyes, one of which the white of his eye is all blood red. His sight is okay though, and there will not be any lasting complications - it just looks yucky. As for his neck - originally, they thought he had a broken neck, but after a CAT scan and an MRI, they've determined that he has no fractures - thank God! However, his neck is extremely tender - because of bruised and pulled muscles. While Dave was there, he was always on a heart monitor. The monitor showed that Dave had an irregular heart beat, so additional tests were ordered to make sure that he didn't bruise his heart in the accident. After a sonigram of his heart, they now believe that he may have already had this condition and like millions of other people, he is fine - it's just how his heart operates. He also has several other cuts, bruises and scrapes, and swelling. Dave will be getting around a little more slowly for a little while as he heals, but luckily he is at least healing.

Regarding the vehicles - we are still waiting to hear about the truck and trailer's fate. The truck will be taken to Colton, CA to be inspected and to determine by Allstate if it can be repaired or not. I have my doubts by looking at the pictures and knowing what it has gone through (rolled a few times) - but it was only one year old, and they may want to attempt to fix it. The trailer is being taken back to Phoenix to also be evaluated. If the truck is totaled, we will replace it with a truck pretty much like that one. Dave was so happy with it - he feels that considering what it went through it held up wonderfully. The trailer however is another story. The trailer's shaking when a large truck or vehicle passed by was not a new thing. It was a problem we went through great cost and care to minimize. Unfortunately, the sway bars, stabalizer bars and the heavy duty hitch were unable to contain the problem this time, especially in the heavy winds and the speeding trucks (causing severe wind turbulance). We will be doing some research on the Terry 29' trailers to see if others have reported similar problems. Either way, if it is totaled or not, we will be seriously considering changing to a 5th wheel trailer which is more stable.

Dave Perry and Fernando will be going to Phoenix (by airplane) in the next week or so to salvage anything they can. They plan to rent a U-Haul truck out there and drive it and whatever can be salvaged back to the bay area. This is of course pending Dave's condition.

THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU!

There are a several people that I would like to give a special thanks to: friends, Doug Wilson and his wife Diana, for being there at the scene of the accident and helping to take care of Dave and Phil until help arrived. I cannot even imagine the thoughts that were going through your mind when this was all happening. I am so truly relieved that you were there for Dave and Phil, and that you were able to help Phil get home. I really appreciate your taking the pictures of accident scene, because this will undoubtably help with trying to repair or replace what is left of our belongings and to make some sense of just what exactly had occured. Thank you also for contacting Perry Kavros who finally got ahold of me.

I want to thank our dear friend Perry for quickly locating me and letting me know what had happened. You have been there for me from the beginning with your calming words and assuring voice. I was able to take in the information (without coming unglued myself) and get to Dave as quickly as possible. You've been a Godsend and a wonderful friend. Thank you for getting the word out to our mutual friends and for sharing the info of where people could see the Doug's pictures.

Laurie & Steve, thank you for helping me get the plane reservations and getting to the airport that night and all your help, love and support.

My parents, for being there for us and helping me get through all this, giving me advice, and especially for keeping the family informed of Dave's progress.

Belinha and Fernando, Thanks to you both for being the great supportive friends you are. Belinha, for calling my mother and father in-law to let them know in Portuguese what had happend when I was unable to reach Diane at that time. I didn't want to panic them unnecessarily, but they needed to know. And for keeping our friends updated on Dave's progress.

To those of you who may have been unaware of the accident until this email, I sincerely apologize. We had a great network of friends and family trying to get the word out to as many people as possible, but somehow you were missed.

To all our dear family and friends who continue to offer your assistance, your prayers, and your kind words - You mean the world to us - and we are so blessed that you are a part of our lives. I can't imagine our lives without you. Thank you from the bottom of our hearts. With love and sincere gratitude Always,

Sherry, Dave, Paul and Heather


For those of you who have not seen the pictures - the website link is below:

http://www.accidentresearch.com/graphics/dave/
03-22-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCL
Senior Heliman
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

Nasty pictures. Real scarry looking. I'm glad you guys survived the accident. If you don't mind me asking, what caused the accident?
03-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Mark Ryder
Administrator
Location: Encino, CA

I processed and uploaded the photos into Perry Kavros's gallery. If this is a problem let me know.

03-22-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Perry Kavros
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

A couple of things contributed to the accident. I'm not sure exactly how windy it was at the time but I know that most of the weekend of the fun fly it had been windy. They were heading down a grade in the right lane and according to Dave a Big Rig had past him at about 10 MPH faster than Dave was going. I helped Dave drive down to last years fun fly with the same setup and it's considerably more noticeable on what happens when a large truck passes you when you are driving a vehicle with a lot of surface area. As the Big Rig comes up the tail of the trailer it fells as if you are being pulled into it, as the truck continues to pass you and both vehicles line up you get pushed out, this situation causes his trailer to start an oscillation which came applify very quickly. Dave has always been very thorough in trying to get his setup ajusted the best he could by using a weight distribution system and sway controls, but with conventional trailers with long lenths it's difficult to get rid of all of it. Dave said he will be looking into 5th wheel trailers which track considerably better for obvious reasons. I hope your still awake after that explaination.

Perry
03-22-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCL
Senior Heliman
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

I drive an F250 truck without towing anything, and i get thrown all over the road whan a big rig passes me.
03-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

Hi Perry

I noted your comments about the trailers behaviour.

Ive had some_experience in this.
I was the general operations manager at a truck body and trailer manufacturing business.We used to make anything from 12x4's to prime mover Refrigerated Curtain siders and Dog and Pig trailers.

The Van coming under the Pig trailer category in which axle positioning and distance from each other is uttely critical or you will get the very effect you got resulting in turn over (oscilates in truck tail swerving till it flips)

The situation you describe appears as I know it to be a flaw in the axle that may need to be re-calcuated.
This must be done by a qualified vehicle engineer it not a matter for others to try to resolve.

Trailer manufacturers of domestic types dont always require engineering compliance, that's where you need to go to a truck trailer builder and ask him to point you to his best vehicle compliance engineer.
Trailer accesory salesmen will hand you all sorts of contraptions to mask the root flaw in a trailer that are damn dangerous but they mostly are un regulated because its a trailer.

Artificially loading up a bad axle design to the front will give limited relief but doesnt fix the cause and you risk blowing tyres due to over loading the front axle of a dual and it teeters on the front axle and becomes less stable anyway even if it feels like its tracking better and has less tail wagging when it does take a side force you have low contact on the rear and overloaded front and it will tail wag at short notice.
If it has a swinging bogey axle then the weight over axles and traction will be OK to maintain traction but not over the bogey for stability of the van weight.
It will be loaded to a bias that if too far back will result in too little load (more to the truck) and too far forward will result in too much on the bogey (less to the truck) as well as greater side force from the rear over hang.
All changing the total traction of all 4 tyres collectively and side load.

Vehicle engineer is the_only man and not just anyone one as I found out here at great expense but one with reputation with larger truck trailer biulder. (body or coach bulders)

I am no trailer expert at all, my suggestions are simply gleaned from trying to find out why we paid 2 engineers loads of money only to have to get another very skilled and sought after engineer to point out the failings on those before him and fixed the problems that in one case required re shifting a bogey to an extension of an arcticulated prime mover (tractor) to rigid tray body conversion.

Normally invloves removing the old fifth wheel and extending a section of beam in between the section with the bogey and the front half and getting a longer drive shaft made and fitting a large tray to the back in place of the fifth wheel.
And engineer would inspect calculations before and job after and sign off and the 2 visits where not cheap.

In this one case due to a bad qualified vehicle engineer we had to then remount the bogey (move it) because the extension was right but the axle position resulted in incorrect beam loading that could have been accounted for on the extension by adding to the mid and the tail of beam of extra tray length to original to acheive correct axle position.
Not only beam loading but load distribution over the axle and thus handling of the truck.

Engineers can get it wrong or be lazy with vehicle engineering tickets so be sure and look up one with a good reputation for trailers.

Some things I noted in the picture.
There seems to be quite a lot of belongings in the trailer.
One thing I know is Van trailers are not load rated for carry goods.
Anything you can move to the vehicle instead should be put in the vehicle but then there is a limit to that
The caravan is enticing with all the extra space but it should not be used to store stuff.
If it wont fit on the truck, perhaps dont take it.

Your suggestion for an articulated turntable coupling or fifth wheel is a good idea and for that would likely mean the trailer has a more serious engineering ticket than a standard type van.

The problem there being you loose the back of a track having the fifth wheel there in the tray, not sure if you can get a removable one in the smaller size perhaps.

That said I feel there is more to it and the trailer is at fault.
If the trailer has a flaw of some sort then no-one should blame themselves for any mods or tinkerng to it as a cause or contributing to it becuase its not, in the case there is a flaw in it for even those who build trailers these kinds of problems are hard to figure out so no-one is to know and only a decent vehicle engineer will get to the bottom of it.

As far as handling it there is nothing you can do, once a bad trailer gets away you just become a passenger and can only hang on for dear life, glad to see they survived it.

Hope Dave makes a speedy recovery and glad to see Phil was only shaken and not hurt.

Regards
Dave

www.polecam-systems.com
12-19-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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