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Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models

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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Definition of "3D"
 
 
HelicopterJohn
Key Veteran
Location: Seffner, Florida (Just East of Tampa, Florida)

Just a couple of questions?????

1. What is the true definition of "3D" as it pertains to R/C Helicopters? Is it defined by AMA or IRCHA or some other organization?

2. I see posts about pilots flying "3D" and I am not sure what they mean. Are they really flying "3D" maneuvers or just flying hot dog style. i.e. Are flips "3D"? Is a rolling circle '3D"?

3. Is there a listing or schedule of official "3D" maneuvers or do pilots make up their own? If so I would like a reference to a website that describes them so that I can better appreciate them when they are performed.

Note: I enjoy and admire watching pilots fly what I may be or is "3D" as it takes a considerable amount of talent to control the helicopter while performing these routines.

OC Bob's Gathering #2 was a Premiere Event. Pictures in my Gallery
03-15-2002 Over year old.
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freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

It means something different to everyone. Thus if someone says they fly 3D, it doesn't really tell you anything.

Personally I like DavidH's definition above, and I would add just a little bit... It's not just full control in all orientations, but a variety of transitions from one orientation to the next.
03-16-2002 Over year old.
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ed vega
Key Veteran
Location: nyc, queens
they should called it 3AO for 3 point axis orientation ..

3d always reminds me of the sky , the horizon and the ground .. but it all meshes together while flying as if it's 1D , inside a bubble, like theres no real orientation just a time-space continuum within the bubble with gravity being the indicator of orientation .

more and more flyers are becoming 3d trigger happy challenging the bubble - but you know how gravity works .hehe!

03-16-2002 Over year old.
 
 
langen
Senior Heliman
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

I think a better name for 3d would be "freestyle". In most cases I think you decide pretty much yourself what you think its 3d. In my opinion, a loop isnt 3d, a roll isnt 3d, a pirro loop is 3d, a pirro roll is 3d. You get the idea... (I hope )
03-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

I came up with my own definition of 3D that I'll submit here for your consideration.

I believe 3D is any maneuver that to be performed requires the constant harmonized input of three or more controls simultaneously while the maneuver is taking place.

Using this I divided the maneuvers in two categories:

1) Quasi-static controls maneuvers:
Under the previous definition a loop, a roll and a 360 pirouette are not 3D. Those maneuvers are performed by simply leaving one control in a single spot to complete the maneuver with slight and precise modifications to compensate or correct for a perfect maneuver. Even if the maneuver requires several inputs such as in a cobra roll you do them one at a time. This doesn't mean at all that non-3D maneuvers are easy to perform. I actually believe that precise non-3D maneuvers require a very high level of sophistication from the pilot.

2) Dynamic controls maneuvers:
I consider maneuvers to be 3D as those where during the whole time while the maneuver is happening two or more controls are being changed constantly to achieve a smooth harmonized effect.

For instance:
1) A piro flip requires constant moving of the elevator and aileron control in a circular stirring and synchronized fashion while at the same time rudder is kept at a constant rate while the pitch is being changed up and down constantly to prevent it from falling. 3 controls changed simultaneously.

2) A rolling circle requires constant traveling through positive pitch with a bit of left rudder then down to the middle of the travel, no rudder and at this point that the heli is in a knife edge position a bit of down elevator then negative pitch and a bit of right rudder and then back to the center on the left stick and again while in knife edge a bit of up elevator. 4 Controls simultaneously being changed

3) A piro loop requires precise control of the pitch so the model won't lose momentum while at the same time you need to rotate the right stick in syncronization with the heli's orientation to the loop plane.

Using these criteria some maneuvers that most people consider 3D such as a funnel wouldn't fall into the 3D category because they comply with the Quasi-static controls maneuver definition. Now if you take a static funnel and you make it into a morphing funnel then it becomes 3D because to perform it you need to constantly be changing three controls simultaneously.

By the same token, fast backwards flying used to require constant input to prevent the tail from weathervaning. Nowadays with the advent of heading-hold gyros this maneuver changed from a 3D maneuver to a non-3D maneuver.

The same way if instead of a 360 pirouette you start pirouette-flying around then you need to start moving the elevator, aileron and pitch to control the location you want to move the helicopter to and this at the same time synchronized with the heli's attitude towards the flight path.

Those are what I consider the difference between 3D and non-3D maneuvers.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
03-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Alan Szabo Sr
Key Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

3D flying

Way to go Augusto. Now it that doesnt explain it nothing will.
03-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
pirouemaniac
Heliman
Location: NV

very good definition
03-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
volare
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati Area

Yes, very well thought out.
03-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jkelly
Veteran
Location: Mobile, AL

So you are saying when I bank in a turn by adding aileron, elevator, and rudder I am flying 3D. Cool I am awesome!

I don't fully agree with that explaination but it sound good. I use all controls at all times so I must be 4D.
04-10-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
03fomoco
Senior Heliman
Location: Tucson AZ

It's an opinion

I don't think it is anything more than an opinion when I am flying and hit the ground (which is often) have I tried to enter the 4th dim. To me flying 3d kind of carries over from planks. I consider 3d any manuever outside of normal flight envelope. So what is a normal flight envelope. I would have to say a normal flight envelope is defined by what the full scale version does. I have seen heli's at airshows perform stall turns loops and I have heard that some military helis have done rolls granted I am sure this is limited. Oh well again just my 1/2 cent and most likely wrong.

-Dave
04-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

jkelly you posted:

"So you are saying when I bank in a turn by adding aileron, elevator, and rudder I am flying 3D. Cool I am awesome! "

Obviously you didn't understand or read the definition I posted.
That would be considered as a quasi-static maneuver because once you enter it the controls can remain in the same position until finished with minor corrections. On a 3D maneuver if you stop actively moving the controls you're toast.

Trust me people that fly 3D can relate to the definition I posted and they really understand what I mean by it.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
04-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
berthoud
Heliman
Location: Toledo, OH

HI

New here, but not new to the sport. While im not at the 3d level for choppers, I really like the harmonized 3+ input definition provided. It even works for planes, which I am 3d capable of (torque rolls, harriers, inverted climbing flat spins---this all requires constant movement of every axis on each stick).

I would also like to add i've previously thought of 3d as being special to the modeling world. It seems only models can perform these manuevers as most of the time they appear impossible and defy the laws of physics.

Scott
04-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ed vega
Key Veteran
Location: nyc, queens

curtis should be here to explain it. i'd be very interested to read his definition.

04-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
davehour
Key Veteran
Location: Guayama, Puerto Rico

Can anyone explain to me what a rolling circle maneuver is? I don't have it clear.

I do fly 3d but don't know this one.
04-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

Roll continously, now while rolling, do a circut = rolling circle
04-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
furyextreme
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

Using these criteria some maneuvers that most people consider 3D such as a funnel wouldn't fall into the 3D category

thats funny augusto

when i do a static funnel the way you describe it,
i use all of the controls pitch,roll rudder, collective,
and am always correcting with all of them to keep it in one place
or to say it in your words two or more controls are being changed constantly to achieve a smooth harmonized effect.


2) Dynamic controls maneuvers:
I consider maneuvers to be 3D as those where during the whole time while the maneuver is happening two or more controls are being changed constantly to achieve a smooth harmonized effect.
05-19-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Definition of "3D"
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