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Off Topics > Network problem

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

Last weekend I installed a new server at the office. Windows 2003 server, 15 workstations all w/ 2000. I also put in a new switch, a Dell Powerconnect 3024. I could get 5 of the workstations to log on, but the rest would not. I used the first station to have problems as the test bed for troubleshooting. I can "see" the workstation from the management software in the switch (mac address, port activity, etc.), but when I try to ping the workstation from the server it responds "Hardware error". When I try to ping the server from the workstation I get request timed out. The hardware and software in this workstation are identical to another ws that works fine. I tried moving the ws that is not working up to the room that the server is in, and using a short made-up cable, it logged on perfectly. When I put it back at it's original location, it times out. I tried a new factory cable, but no change. I tried every combination of ports, number of ws's logged on, everything, no change. Has anyone used one of these switches, or has any suggestions at all? I am going to try the faulty ws on a cable that I know logs on, but even if that works, I'm not sure why the other cables I made won't work, or even the factory cable. The only one that works is the short (10') cable. The runs are not excessive, and another ws that works is even farther away than the faulty one. To get the office back up, I reconnected two old junky 8 port switches that are cascaded together all stations work fine.
HELP!!!!!
Thanks,
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

z11355
rrMaster
Location: 10000 is enough time wasted.

perhaps the non-working ports on the
Dell switch are misconfigured?

Like forcing 100BT or Gigabit or fullduplex when the workstations won't
support it?

I would assume that the switch has
LINK lights for each port. Is it correct
to assume the LEDs are off on the
problem ports?

08-06-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

The switch has 2 additional ports for the gigabit connections, and as far as I can tell, the 24 main ports are all configured the same (standard 10/100), although I will double check that. Yes, each port has link/ status lights. The problem port (remember, I am using one faulty work station for a test bed, the other stations that aren't working need upgraded ethernet cards) shows the link as GOOD and CONNECTED as does the link/status light on the e-card itself at the workstation. If I try a different port (I've tried them all) , the results are the same. Thats why I'm confused, everything checks out fine, but it just doesn't work with any cable other than the short one, and it is IDENTICAL except for the length. Is this stupid or what?
Thanks for any help you can give!!!
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

Added info - I'm using dhcp on the server and ws's, and the switch is set up to boot from a dhcp server.
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

z11355
rrMaster
Location: 10000 is enough time wasted.

are you SURE the one cable that works
is IDENTICAL? Maybe it's a crossover?

Gotta run to the office now..........

08-06-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

alfred
Veteran
Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

If you are running at 100Mhz then your switch should have it's connection back to the Server via Fiber optic cable.
As a Comms Technician, just because a cable looks fine doesn't mean it is. Try to add a meter to your long cable, if this fixes it then you have a standing wave problem at that particular length.
Is your Server setup using Domain? If it is then this can be your problem.

1) Try giving it a static IP address, if that fixes it then you have a Domain issue.
2) Lengthen your cable, fixed? Standing wave problem..just leave it longer.
3) Do you have internally wired Outlets where the cable is in the wall?
if so then the internal wiring can be at fault.
4) LAN card on PC. If it is a 10 MHz card then you can't run it at a 100MHz port.

08-06-2003 Over year old.

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

Thanks for the post. I just checked it again, its not a crossover. I made up this cable just like others that work. All the colors match up on both ends. Let me know if you think of ANYTHING!
Thanks again,
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

Alfred
Thanks for the help. The port lights indicate connection at 100, but again, the other stations that work are the same (connect @ 100, cat5 cable, tcpip, dhcp, etc.) I have to say also that I am not formally educated in IT management. I have learned what I know over the past 15 years by trial and error and picking peoples brains (like you

), so some of the terminology might be over my head. (I know enough to get me into trouble!)
The cabling throughout the office is all made up by myself, no wall connections, direct connections from wk's to server. (14 stations)
I first thought the LAN card might be faulty, so I installed a new one. It is rated for 10/100 full duplex.
I thought the length might be the problem, but another station about 20' farther away works fine. I haven't tried using it's cable on this station however, I was under a time constraint. I can try that this weekend.
The server is running a domain.
You spoke of a "meter". Could you ellaborate? (forgive me, I'm still learning!)
Thanks for the brain cells!
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

Alfred
Question: Are you saying standing waves can occur at a certain length? Are these similar to standing waves in sound applications? (I'm familiar with this concept). I did try a longer cable (the factory one) with no result, should I try other lengths as well?
Sorry to be a pest,
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

TurboRacer
Senior Heliman
Location: CT

Is the switch managed? can you log into the local admin account on the workstations that you can't ping from the server?

And why would anyone buy a dell switch?!?!

08-06-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

Turbo
Yes the switch is managed. I can not log on to the server, or the switch from the faulty station. If I look at the port status in the management software from a working station, it shows that the faulty station is there (it shows the mac address, port activity, etc) but I still can't ping it from the server or from another station. All indications are that everything is working, but it's not!
Why by a Dell? The word "stupidity" comes to mind...

I live another day, I learn another lesson.
Thanks for the reply, keep them coming!
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

I forgot to add, the stations that are working show the normal dhcp addresses (192.168.0.10, and so on) but when I run ipconfig on the faulty station it gets169.254.115.21. (or something like that) Not the ordered dhcp address. Does this help?
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

alfred
Veteran
Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

You can't just simply match colors.
You have to configure them either as CAT5B or CAT5A.
The normal standard is CAT5A.
If you would configure them like: blue/orange/green/brown then you will have problems as all the pairs are next to each other and will cause excessive crossover talk.

Here is the correct wiring..both to be the same at each end looking at the copper side of the RJ45 connector:

CAT5B:
white orange, orange, white green, blue, white blue, green, white brown, brown

CAT5A:
white green, green, white orange, blue, white blue, orange, white brown, brown

Also there is a difference in the RJ45 connectors.
One is made for solid core (usually used in back bone wiring)
The other is for stranded cable.

Look at the side of the connector at the first teeth.
For stranded you will see 2 tips, these are designed to penetrate the outer shielding and bite into the stranded wires.

For solid core you will see 3 tips. At a closer look you will notice that it is actually a fork that will pierce through the shield but then trap the core like a vice in between.

It is very important that you use the correct connector for the type of cable used.
Fly leads should always be made from stranded CAT5 cable.

08-06-2003 Over year old.

z11355
rrMaster
Location: 10000 is enough time wasted.

the dell switches aren't that bad. we
have racks of dell clustered linux boxes
and at least the switches dont die
all the time like the fans on the backside
of the blades do

the 169.x.x.x address is self-assigned
by WinBloz, thus reiterating the fact
that that workstation has no connectivity.

08-06-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

TurboRacer
Senior Heliman
Location: CT

also, try turning off the DHCP on the fautly workstations, and put in an IP that corresponds with the DHCP'd IPs on the working workstations.

See if they will come to life after that.

Also, yeah, Dell is fine if you want to buy a few workstations, but when it comes to networking hardware, or pretty much any hardware, it's as good as two tin cans with string. Well, maybe a little better, but you get the idea!

08-06-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

Alfred
Will the type of configuration make a difference? I have the ends made up wrong (I paired the colors - w/o-o, w/bl-bl, w/g-g, w/br-br). They work on the stations that are working, but I can see how this could be a problem. The factory cable is cat5b and doesn't work. I will make up a cat5a cable and try it.
The fly leads (if by this you mean the cables going to the workstations) are all solid core. The latest cable I made up (that didn't work) was from new Belken stranded cable with the connectors like you described. (the short one was the solid stuff)
Thanks again!
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

alfred
Veteran
Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

Very quickly as you seem to be logged onto the forum.
By meter I meant metre as in length.
Yes it is like in audio...standing wave. The signal will come to a stop at that point or slow down to nothing even that the switch shows 100MHz.
this is the problem you get:
The switch will lock down to either 10 or 100MHz when it first communicates with the LAN card of your PC. The switch and the card will stay at this speed until you either run IPconfig release or you power down reboot the PC.
You can nail the problem down by sending a normal ping command and it will show good times. Then go and send ping with larger packages and you will see the whole lot slowing to a crawl.
That's beside the point as from your last reply you seem to have a DHCP problem.
Are you bale to configure the ports individually?
I think the ports are setup to the wrong Domain.
We run CISCO switches at work and one of my jobs is to also give people access to the server they need to log onto.
Just because they have physical connection doesn't mean that they can talk to the Server.
See if you need to setup the switch port to the right IP range(Domain).

08-06-2003 Over year old.

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

z11355
I'm just kidding about the switch, anything that doesn't work at the time is a piece of sh@t, but after we get it working it'll be great!

Turbo
I will make up a new cable like Alfred suggested, then try the IP thing. I can just pick the next number in the dhcp line for an address? (for instance, one port might be xxx.xxx.xxx.15, the port I plug this one into would be xxx.xxx.xxx.16)

I'll have to wait untill tonight to try it.
Thanks again! Keep them coming!
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

alfred
Veteran
Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

We are starting to overlap each other in replies

Don't use solid core cable fly leads If it hasn't caused problems yet...it will in the future as constant movement as in an office environment will eventually fracture the cable internally. It is designed for in-wall installation only.
It doesn't matter if you use CAT5A or B as long as the cable pairs aren't next to each other.
Here is a Website that I just found for you that shows the configurations.
Print it out for future reference.
http://www.duxcw.com/digest/Howto/n...able/cable5.htm

With the Belken stranded you should use the connectors with the 2 tips.
Check your connectors very carefully after putting them on.
Check that none of the copper lands are pushed sideways as there are some shonky crappy Crimp tools on the marked that do not crimp properly.

08-06-2003 Over year old.

diZeaZed
Senior Heliman
Location: Bunnell, Fl.

Alfred
Metre...oops (sorry, my brain is fried by now!

)
The management software doesn't allow individual port address configuration when the switch is set to dhcp overall (as far as I can tell). This software leaves something to be desired...
For the most part, I left the switch at it's default settings, which seemed to be correct for our system. Remember, other computers work fine, and this one works with the short cord. That leads me to believe what you are saying about the cable makes even more sense. I'm going to try another cable wired as you described, and in leau of that, assigning a static ip address like turboracer said. I can't emphasise enough how much this thing SHOULD WORK! It's driving me crazy!
I'm off to lunch, but if you think of anything else, let me know!
Thanks a bunch guys!
Jojo

08-06-2003 Over year old.

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