RunRyder - X-cell gas, what pitch are you running?

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > X-cell gas, what pitch are you running?

ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Ok, Call me dumb, but I thought I heard my engine loading. people told me that I was just hearing the enging load and not the rotor disk!

Well, I checked and I was at about +14 degrees of pitch! Wow, could that baby climb!

it did load up slightly, but it flew and climbed very strong.

After I realised what I had done, I did a quick check and reduced the pitch a bit to what seemed to not load the engine. the climbs were not as rocket fast, but at least the engine didn't load up, I was happy!

When I got home, I checked and found that I was at about +12 degrees of pitch. Hmm.. that can't be right! Everyone says they use +10 degrees of pitch or the engine will load up and not run correctly. So I backed the max pitch down to +10.

I went to the field to check this out, thinking that all would be well. i could fly around at full collective all day long! However there was hardly any climb authority! The engine didnt' even seem to notice the load.

I'm using wood 690mm blades, My head speeds are 1500 hover, 1600 idle up 1, and 1700 idle up 2.

I shot for the following pitch ranges:

1500 rpm Hover: -5, 0, +5, +10 (min, center stick, hover, max)
1600 rpm idle1: -9, 0, +5, +10
1700 rpm idle2: -9, 0, +5, +10
hold: -5, 0, +5, +12

This didn't feel right at all! I seemed to barely be able to climb at all. Forward speed wasn't very fast and full collective didn't even sound like a load at all.

It seems like the following feels better without placing a too heavy load on the engine as the head speed seems constant to my ear:

1500 rpm Hover: -5, 0, +6, +12 (min, center stick, hover, max)
1600 rpm idle1: -9, 0, +6, +12
1700 rpm idle2: -9, 0, +6, +12
hold: -5, 0, +6, +14

At least this range would climb out ok! Does this look right? Is this due to me using wood blades? Perhaps the stiffer carbon blades load differently than the woodies? Or do I simply have an exceptionally strong running G230PUH?

---
Rich

07-08-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

BIGRCR
Veteran
Location: Easley, South Carolina

The Zenoah 230 and 231 love to pull a bunch of pitch. The gas engine is happiest when loaded. I have not measured my pitch lately, but I know I am around at least 11 degrees positive and 10 negative and I cannot load the G-231 enough to to lower the rotor RPM in a climb with full throttle at 1700 RPM. The motor is still breaking in and it is begging for more pitch. I have also gone to around 1 1/2 positive at center to help keep it from unloading in FFF. The governor has really helped a lot.

The carbon blades do load differently than the woodies. Get yourself some good carbon blades and really enjoy the gasser!!

Later,

BIGRCR- John Garst

07-08-2003 Over year old.

Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

Rich,
It sounds like your learning how to load the engine to me...Your right, different blades load the system differently...Trust your insight

Personally, I like to hear it pull hard....You do it like a glow, you want go no where...
Bill

07-08-2003 Over year old.

SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

Rich,

I'm using the old 230 PUH engine also, and I'm running about all the pitch I can get out of the mechanics, +11 to -11 degrees. Hope this is of some help.

SteveH

07-08-2003 Over year old.

ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Thanks all for the viewpoints.

The most perplexing thing to me was how SLOWLY this thing rises with +10 degrees of pitch. I don't think I was too used to the +14 I was running for a while.. or mabye I was!

I'm sticking with the +12ish, in fact, I may try to work more in and see where it starts to load. I sure wish I had a sky tach though, then I'd really know what was happening.

Does anyone have a sky tach (similar to the one that MinAir sells)? If so, does it work as well as people lead you to believe?

I'm using the GV-1 govenor so I know I'm about right on the head speed, I just can't be sure how close I'm holding the spead during flight. I see a max of 1740 RPM after I land when using my 1700 RPM idle up 2 setting. But this doesn't tell me how well it held this RPM during flight.

---
Rich

07-08-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Woodies don't pull

Its your blades. I owned ONE set of wooden blades and after I tried the carbons I couldn't wait to get rid of the woodies. Since I couldn't crash them (I guess my luck was holding up), I ended up selling them to someone on the field and unfortunately they crashed them right before my eyes that same day when their engine quit and they didn't know how to autorotate -- never dropped collective ...

Anyway, yes, woodies need some ridiculous amount of pitch to pull the chopper. If you change to carbons you will notice a significant drop in collective range needed to do the same thing. While you can put +14 on the woodies to make her climb, you will never get -14 to climb the same way inverted (too much pitch range), so when you think about doing some 3d, all of a sudden you are not going to like them any more!

Anyway, when you get a chance try some carbons and you will notice a BIG difference in performance. For now, crank up the top end pitch!

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

07-11-2003 Over year old.

ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Thanks Raja,

This is what I wanted to hear. It's what I'm experiencing now and will have carbon's soon.

Funny thing is, local rc shop says that gas heli's are no good. No one likes them because they want to 3D!

I'll show them! Even if I can't fly!

---
Rich

07-11-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

garyl
Senior Heliman
Location: taxachussetts

Rich,
I fly a benzine and noticed the same thing. At 10 degrees pitch the heli did not climb that well and the motor sounded loaded. I checked the govenor to make sure I was getting full throttle, was OK. I increased the pitch to 12 degrees and the motor sounds better and the heli climbs like a rocket. Like everyone says this motor likes to be loaded.

07-11-2003 Over year old.

ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Gary,

Thanks for the thoughts. At 10 degrees the engine didn't even seem to be loaded at all for me. Now I know why I couldn't set my high needle correctly, 14 or 15 degrees of pitch was just too much!

I'll have to get some carbon blades and see how they react.

---
Rich

07-12-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > X-cell gas, what pitch are you running?

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