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Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters

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e-Electric Motors & Controllers > PROBLEM WITH 370 MOTOR
 
 
kenchoco
Senior Heliman
Location: houston,texas

the 370 motor is great,in fact too great,it is so powerful that the stock tail motor cannot keep up.my hb keeps spinning and acting wild.so i am gonna get a tail motor from www.helihobby.com ,they have a bigger tail motor.i hope this is the problem....will keep ya posted choco
06-11-2003 Over year old.
 
 
grisnjam
Heliman
Location: Austin, Tx

I am using a GWS 370 on a HB and the problem is not that the tail can't keep up but that the GWS pulls too many amps and robs the tail of power. I assume you are running with the stock 10 tooth pinion? I switched to a 9 tooth pinion from helihobby and that did the trick. The tail is solid again. Give that a try ...
06-11-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
4A Vacation
Heliman
Location: Houston

Tail not holding

Dear Ken:

I think your issue may be the shaft from our prior conversation. Pull it and make sure its still straight. There is no question that one less tooth on the tail might help when properly set up but I was hovering mine last night playing with the cat following him through the house and it semed to be fine. I did raise my gyro sensativity and made some mild changes to the subtrims.

This may help. Pull the main shaft and put it on a glass table. If you can see light through the part on the surface its bent.

I am curious abot the p tooth gear did it do anything to make it more hands off. Mine you must be on the sticks 100% of the time.
06-11-2003 Over year old.
 
 
grisnjam
Heliman
Location: Austin, Tx

I was talking about a 9 tooth pinion on the main motor when using a GWS 370. I am using a BC2 motor on the tail with the stock pinion. With a 10 tooth pinion the GWS 370 draws to much current and can cause the tail to lose power during fast throttle ups.

I have my HB (with the collar shaft mod) trimmed out pretty well and can go hands off for 3-6 seconds.

I hope this is clear.
06-11-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
stevem
Senior Heliman
Location: Oklahoma

Actually, it is probably not the tail loosing power but simply the tail not being able to keep up with the torque on the main rotor with that gear choice.

Also if you are using the hummingboard the mix will be off as the motor is a higher rpm/v and would need a smaller pinion to acheive the correct mix. I found this out early on with a 280BB upgrade.

In either case, a pinion swap will more than likely fix it.

Have fun!

Steve M
06-11-2003 Over year old.
 
 
parkguy
Senior Heliman
Location: San Diego CA

Century 370 motor

I have had the new motor on for about 2 weeks now and it works great I had to turn my gyro up a tad but hold fine.

I posted some pictures and videos on my new site:

http://www.electricmicro.com

06-11-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Marty
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

I do have a question though....
I have the HB with a speed 300 in it, stock tooth (10) and a larger tail motor (7.2V) with (at the moment) a 9 tooth gear. I am running the HBboard though awaiting seperates. My question is that those who are having problems with the pirouetting, are you running the hummingboard or seperates. ie. some people are alluding to the fact that it may be the fact that the tail motor is loosing amps when the main motor is being spun up ie high power drain, thus leaving the tail motor short of power to combat torque. Others are saying it is a tail motor gearing issue. Would those who have seperates please advise vs. those who use the humming board, so that we can work out whether it is a HB board mixing issue or a gearing=>not enough amps issue, which would be present in a seperates setup also...
IE. would seperates feed more amps to the tailmotor to stop torque yaw if this is the problem, because the HB board "mixing" is now out of the loop...
If you are having trouble understanding what I mean, just think of it from my perspective. I just got home and it's 2.47am after a Thursday night at the pub...
Pls advise.
thanks ---- Tired and Confused
06-12-2003 Over year old.
 
 
grisnjam
Heliman
Location: Austin, Tx

I am running separates with a HH gyro... and had a problem with either torque or amps on a GWS 370 with a 10 tooth pinion. So it is no the mixing in this case.
06-12-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Marty
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

Have you had a positive outcome as yet or still fault finding... Can you shed any light??
As I said I am about to seperates to see if it elimiantes the "amp draw" issue and then try different gearing...
06-12-2003 Over year old.
 
 
grisnjam
Heliman
Location: Austin, Tx

I think the amp draw problem (if real) would be present either way as it would be a limitation of the battery’s max amp output ( I am using a 2 cell e-tec 1200 pack). Put I have been advised that it might be torque problem as the tail just can't keep up with the higher torque of the 370 on a 10 tooth pinion.


I solved the problem by switching to a 9 tooth pinion with the GWS 370. The tail holds now even in fast ascents. Good luck.
06-12-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Marty
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

So what you're saying is that it is a torque issue and you have effectively reduced torque by reducing the main motor gearing by going down a cog...??
06-12-2003 Over year old.
 
 
grisnjam
Heliman
Location: Austin, Tx

I think so ... if it was amps or torque the solution is the same, a higher gear ratio in the form of a smaller pinion on the main motor.
06-12-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
stevem
Senior Heliman
Location: Oklahoma

Can those of you who have this problem with the tail rotor not being able to keep up try this: Get in a stable hover (outside on a calm day) and then apply full throttle quickly and smoothly while inputting right rudder to compensate. If you can hold the nose straight or even rotate the nose right, then it is not a power issue, it is the tail lagging for some reason.

I have ran both the hummingboard and seperates. With the Hummingboard, I ran a 280BB on the stock 10 tooth pinion and as you advanced the throttle to ascend, the tail would slowly loose track and begin to spin. Another person mentioned the mix issue which makes sence to me so I swapped in an 8 tooth and the problem was gone. The mixer will add a certain amount of tail rotor when it sees a certain throttle position. If you are spinning the blades faster (higher speed motor) at that point, then of course the tail will begin to drift. As you advance the throttle more the problem becomes even more pronounced.

I now use seperates with a HH gyro. On an 8 tooth main pinion, and the gyro set properly, the tail would wobble a bit to the right (nose left) if I stabbed the throttle but would quickly recover. You could also hear the tail rotor screaming to keep up. I used a 10 tooth pinion on this setup and I could break the tail loose when I gave a quick stab of throttle - you could hear the tail rotor screaming but it simply was not quick enough to cope. It would quickly recover when I lessened the throttle. If I input right rudder with the throttle input, I could keep the tail steady. This indicates that the tail has enough power to compensate but is a bit slow to respond.

Now I use a Razor brushless. At first, I used an 8 tooth pinion and had similar results to the 10 tooth above. I managed to strip that pinion and switched to the stock 10 tooth. Now I really have to be on top of the tail rotor if I plan to ascend quickly. Managing the rudder, I can keep the tail straight on a full throttle ascent, but have no extra for rotating the nose to the left if I need it. But I can torque spion it at about any time I need.

I am not saying that there are not times when the tail power drops - near an end of a discharge (around 20 minutes) No matter what I do, I could not keep the tail straight in a full throttle blast. But the drop in power is obvious as the heli does not climb like when the battery was fresh.

This is just my experience. Regardless if it is a loss of power to the tail, an improper pinion/mix issue or simply the tail not being able to keep up the end result is pretty much the same as is the fix. A smaller main pinion seems to help in all of the instances I have listed above. To find out the answer, someone will need to measure the voltage on the tail motor under various conditions and verify what the drop actually is enough to cause the tail to drop out.


Good luck guys. Have fun and remember this is a hobby and supposed to be fun!

Steve
06-12-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Marty
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

Have had some success with the tail control. Went seperates and am using the high authority tail motor with an orion and 12 tooth gear on the main. After putting a 9 tooth pinion on the tail, the tail rotor now seems to have enough authority. Keep you posted.
06-13-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Marty
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

Also just tried the HB with the same tail setup but with the Speed 300 with a 10 tooth (stock) gear. Same story, the tail is quite solid. When the power gets low, the tail starts to let go ie. not enough amps available to the tail motor. Till then though it it v good.

Must say though that after running both the orion and then the speed 300 one after the other, it is VERY noticable really how much smoother and more powerful the orion is and the flight times are better with it too. Actually an amazing motor.
06-13-2003 Over year old.
 
 
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