rrTV-PHOTO   New HD TV
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 494 ONLINE 46 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ]2205 viewsPOST REPLY
Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

.
.
Gasser Model RC Helicopters > G-23 carb question, 603, or 643??
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Hi all,

I have the original G230PUH. No mods, just runs!

I've been hearing people say that these things run so much better when used with a WT-603A carb instead of the stock WA167A carb.

For someone who has changed this themself, what difference did you notice with the new carb?

In doing some research, I see that the new G231PUH comes with a WT643 (or possibly a WT644) carb. If this is true, why haven't people tried the 643 instead of the 603 carb?

Does anyone know the difference between the 603 and the 643 carbs? I tried to check Walbro's web site but they don't have descriptions that tells you the details about each carb.

On a similar note, while looking through Walbro's web site, I see they have all sorts of ignition modules, including some with digital advance, etc. Has anyone thought of changing out the ignition module to get better performance out of our engines? I know the 'aftermarket' guys make a lot of money selling these for the plank pilots, why not for the Heli guys, especially if there is an OEM part available?
06-02-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

Rich,

I've changed from the 167A carb to the 603 and I believe it's smoother running in the midrange and I know it has a lot more power full throttle. I believe the other carbs you mention, the 643 and the 644 are the same size as the 603, just with different configuations of choke and primer bulb.

At this point I'm just like the old lady in the beauty shop, I'd tell you more but I've already told you more than I heard!

SteveH
06-02-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Steve,

Thats good input!

What did you pay for your 603?

I'd just like to understand the difference on the 643.. why go for a 603 if a 643 might even better!

I wonder if anyone has looked at the 643
06-02-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ericd
Senior Heliman
Location: New Eagle, PA

The 603/643/644 are the all same bore. 603 is the only one with a built in choke.

I bought my 603 at a local mower shop. It had to be ordered, but it only took a few days to come in. I believe it was around $45.

Eric...
06-02-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

thanks..

I'll have to check the exploded view on walbro.com. They are all there now. But no descriptions. Too bad they don't have an application chart or data sheet for the different carbs.

I'll try to check them out.
06-02-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ericd
Senior Heliman
Location: New Eagle, PA

The Walbro site is a bit tough to understand. The exploded view of each carb is the same drawing. Just look at the list on the right to figure out what comes with the carb and what doesn't.

Eric...
06-02-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Eric,

Thanks! I just realised that today! I guess there is a little method to their madness!

It's still hard to determine the exact differences, specs, etc.

I noticed today that the 603 and the 643 were very close, the 603 includes the built in choke. But the 643 is more expensive than the 603 for some reason. Most of the parts seem similar with a few minor exceptions not counting the extra parts for the built in choke.

Rich
06-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Overhead
Senior Heliman
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA

WT-644

My brand new G26 came with a Walbro 644 carb.

Dennis
06-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

and the new G231POH is coming with a 643 or a 644. I have to wonder what the differene is and also how these differ from the 603.
06-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Chris Bergen
Key Veteran
Location: location

Gentleman,

The 603 carb is a different carb from the 643,644,645 series.

The differences in the 643,644,and 645, is whether the carb has no pump bulb and no choke, pump bulb only, or choke only.

The G26/G231 paperwork shows the different carbs and their designations.

The 603 carb has a smaller throat, hence it works on the G23PUH engines.

On the ignition module upgrades, Those of you with G26's will notice the PRIMARY coil is gray, versus the G231's red coil. The red coil is supposedly for the heli versions of the zenoah engines with a little different timing. Theory is that it concerns the way we start the engines. Airplane guys typically hand prop to start and they don't want the engine to "catch" with their hand still in the way. I have run both, and felt no difference. (Disclaimer......I may have the colors backwards!)

I don't know how much difference running a electronic ignition would make, but if you guys'll buy em, I'll sell em!!!!

Chris Bergen
06-03-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your answer!

I'm a bit confused though, the new G231PUH engine comes with either a 643 or 644 carb (according to the documentation I have seen).

But it sounds like you are saying the 603 has a smaller throat to accomodate the G23.

It sounds like you are implying that the 644/643 are made for the G26 and may not be appropriate for the G23? Is this correct?

The reason I brought up this disucussion is that I have seen many people recommend the 603 carb to get better running out of a stock G230PUH. But after doing some research I saw that the new G231PUH comes with the 643 carb.

I thought that people may not be aware of the new 643 carb as sometimes people keep doing the same old thing that works. Perhaps the new carb has been improved and will perform even better than the 603 for some reason?

I thought the only real difference between the G230PUH and the new G231PUH is the piston (single ring), porting and carb. If this is true, one could convert to the new piston, head assembly (to get the porting) and the 643 carb and end up with G231PUH?

So I thought, "why not start with the 643 carb instead of the 603".

Would you mind sharing your thoughts?

Oh, I thought I'd add that I really like your ships.. The reason I went with the X-Cell Gas is that I have a local shop that stocks the full line of MinAir parts. If I could get parts quickly and easily, I'd be flying one of your machines!
06-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ericd
Senior Heliman
Location: New Eagle, PA

According to Walbro's site, the 603/643/644 all carry the same part number for the throttle butterfly - That would lead me to believe that the bore is the same for all.

603 - http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/produc...603-1&Series=WT

643 - http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/produc...643-1&Series=WT

644 - http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/produc...644-1&Series=WT

Am I wrong?

Eric...
06-03-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Chris Bergen
Key Veteran
Location: location

Ericd,
The butterflies may be the same, but if you compare the the carbs themselves, you'll see a difference.

Imrich,
I wish it was that easy. The crankcase is also different to match the porting in the cylinder head. The bolt spacing is also slightly off.

(By the way, Quit giving away my secrets for souping up a gasser. I want to win the gasser drag racing events this year!!)




Chris Bergen
06-04-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Chris,

I won't give away anymore of your secrets, just pay me off by sending me a nice bergen gasser and then keep me on the payroll!

Did you see my idea/posting on using the flywheel magnets to trigger the Futaba GV-1 sensor? It seems to work like a charm with the sensor looking right through the case of the G-23.

I have this mounted in my X-Cell. I'm sure it would be just as easy in one of your machines.
06-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Chris,

I forgot to ask. You never clarified if you think the better carb for the G-23 is the 603, 643, 644, or 645!

I'm still leaning toward the 643 series since this is what they are using in the new G231PUH.

How much difference in running do you see in the G230PUH with the 603 carb (or whatever you chose)? I'm not looking for super HP to win a drag race, but for basic good helicopter compatible power range (reliable running, mid range, etc).

Or maybe I should just wait until I burn out the G230PUH which I have now and then go for a G231PUH? I can't see taking a perfectly good engine out of my Gasser just to get a new carb!
06-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Tom,

Thanks for your feedback. I'll be waiting for your initial reactions to the new Carb.

I'd hate to spend $60 for a carb when you can get the whole G231PUH for $250 or so.. unless the new carb makes a very large difference.

I'm not unhappy with the G230PUH, I guess I have upgrade-itis!

So maybe if I burn out the G230PUH, I know to go with the 231

Another Idea, X-Cell has an 'adapter plate' available to allow the pull start to easy slip off after starting. This should take some dead weight off the heli. Weight is HP robber.. so.. maybe that will help too?

Has anyone tried this? Is it worth it?

Originally I thought about designing my own, it looks like MinAir has done it themselves. They read my mind and came out with my product!

---
Rich
06-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ericd
Senior Heliman
Location: New Eagle, PA

Rich,

I use the removable pull start as do all of the guys at our field flying X-Cell gassers. I've never weighed the pull start, bolts and small adapter plate that are removed, but as you said, every bit helps.

Another benifit is that you can run the lower tuff struts instead of the high version. Mainly appearance I guess, but there may be a weight difference between the two. I've always liked the low-slung look though.

If you go this route, be sure to keep track of the pull start. It's very easy to leave it laying out where you initially start the machine. I'm trying to get in the habit of walking it back to my box before I start the flight.

Eric...
06-05-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ericd
Senior Heliman
Location: New Eagle, PA

Tom,

Did you account for the stock aluminum plate that holds the pull start on? May not add much, but then again it is kinda thick.

Eric...
06-05-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

thanks guys.. now I'll need another 'upgrade'!

---
Rich
06-06-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

removable pull starter

Rich:

I use that removable pull starter. It works great and I "almost" felt the difference in flight without the starter on board. It saves a total of 4.7oz off the ship (I weighted all the parts accurately), so, call it like flying the ship without a battery pack as that is about what a AA pack weighs.

By all means, go for it. Its well worth it.

-=>Raja.
06-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ]2205 viewsPOST REPLY
Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

.
.
Gasser Model RC Helicopters > G-23 carb question, 603, or 643??
  UPDATE SCREEN   PRINT TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Saturday, August 30 - 5:48 am - Copyright © 2000 - 2008 runryder.com | email | link to rr | runryder needs cookie