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HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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Main Discussion > Nitro idle, on the ground vs carried.
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Can someone explain why a nitro machine have higher idle when its on the ground vs if you carry it.

I have this fenomen on my Stratus and seen it on many machines, sometimes it dies when you pick it up and carry it, but if you fast put it back on the ground it runs perfect again.

Magic?

Just curious why, I need to know things...


Team Autopartner - Team pilot
09-30-2008 06:53 PM
 
 
Leif
Elite Veteran
Location: Oxford, PA - USA

I don't have a definitive answer, but I do have a theory based on past work experience with high-pressure liquid chromatography.

I suspect that you have bubbles in the fuel stream. These bubbles collect on surfaces and in sharp corners of the internal geometry of the fuel system until they are either shaken free or are swept through the flowpath by a high flow of fuel.

When you start the engine, you are running with a very low fuel flow. The bubbles are not swept through the system until you go to high throttle (or until you shake them loose). I suspect that the bubbles are shaken loose as you carry the heli to the flightline. Putting the heli down stops the remaining bubbles from shaking loose, so the engine recovers.

When I say "bubble", I'm not referring to large visible blobs of air, but rather a vast number of "micro-bubbles". Think about the sides of a clear container after you just filled it from a tap and you'll get what I mean.

I personally have found that my heli conks out much more frequently after starting since I installed the CarbSmart. This is because the CarbSmart has the engine at the most lean position when it is cold, making the presence of bubbles have a greater impact on the engine than a fixed mixture setting.

Just a theory, but I think this is what's happening.

Leif
09-30-2008 07:15 PM
 
 
Cornster
Senior Heliman
Location: Thornton, CO USA

Simple, gravity feed. Ever notice how on the regulated systems their engines tend to keep a smooth idle?

When folks pick up their ships and carry them, they tend to carry them nose down, which 'pushes' more fuel into the engine via gravity. Causing the engine to drop in RPM due to a rich condition. If you carry the heli tail down, it will cause a lean condition and RPM will increase slightly.

Do this as a test, start your bird, pick it up and tip it nose down then nose up and notice what happens.

I fly.....because I can.
09-30-2008 07:22 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Leif
Elite Veteran
Location: Oxford, PA - USA

Doesn't make any difference how I carry the heli. The cut-out is related to moving it, not whether it is nose-down or nose-up.

Pumped systems would have a high fuel-flow through most of the fuel system even during idle (the feedback loop), so most bubbles would be swept back into the tank.

Leif
09-30-2008 07:28 PM
 
 
Hamo
Senior Heliman
Location: Ireland

Could it be because the throttle servo mount or the body bends and opens the throttle slightly when on the ground. To test the theory, put the heli on a piece of cardboard or something and carry it while it's sitting on the cardboard.
Hamo
09-30-2008 07:55 PM
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Pretty sure thats not the case (if it was, my heli would look like a slimeball in the air), plus as my throttle is mounted, it would go the other way around...


Team Autopartner - Team pilot
09-30-2008 08:03 PM
 
 
what_the_helli
Senior Heliman
Location: cookeville, tn USA

everyone knows, heli's just don't like to be carried

Proud member of
KBDD Int'l & Compass Models Team
Team RcHeliWorkz.com
09-30-2008 08:40 PM
 
 
Hamo
Senior Heliman
Location: Ireland

When you pick up your heli to carry it, do you hold it from the rotor head ? If so, try carrying it with 2 hands, one on the boom and one on the canopy and see what happens.
Hamo
09-30-2008 09:24 PM
 
 
Brokenlink
Veteran
Location: Oakdale,Ca.

I would check everything because it should not be doing that.

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards."
09-30-2008 09:37 PM
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Nothing wrong with the machine, like I said in the first post, ive seen this in numerous occations and different helis.

Vibrations affects regulator perhaps (less vibration when you lift the heli), well, its one of those "why in the world..." thing I cant let go to wonder about.


Team Autopartner - Team pilot
09-30-2008 09:42 PM
 
 
Brokenlink
Veteran
Location: Oakdale,Ca.

Huh,that seems strange to me.I have had a few helis and never had that problem.It would drive me nuts till I found out the cause.

"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards."
09-30-2008 09:56 PM
 
 
Knud Pedersen
Veteran
Location: Denmark - Europa

I have noticed the same.
Wenn I carry my heli, the idle rpms, get's lower...



ChopperKnud
The Pitchbrothers

ChopperKnud - Knud Pedersen
Miniature Aircraft USA, CSM
www.ThePitchbrothers.com
10-01-2008 05:47 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nivlek
rrProfessor
Location: Norfolk England

Are you sure that the idle speed really changes , or does it just sound different when the heli is being carried rather than firmly on the ground ?

At the end of the day , it gets dark .
10-01-2008 05:54 PM
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Pretty sure it changes since the heli motor dies if you have too low


Team Autopartner - Team pilot
10-01-2008 05:55 PM
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts

When carrying the heli, the rpms drop because the heli doesn't like being carried. When it's on the ground, rpms rise because it is getting excited in readiness for a spectacular lift off

Vegetable rights and Peace
10-01-2008 06:09 PM
 
 
Hamo
Senior Heliman
Location: Ireland

To understand the cause you need to do a lot of different tests.
1. Lift the helicopter from rotor head and just hold it, no movement
2. Lift the helicopter from from boom and canopy and just hold
3. Repeat 1 and 2 above but move the helicopter slowly
4. Repeat 1 and 2 and move it faster
5. Put the helicopter on a flat piece of wood and lift, don't move
6. Repeat 5 but move slowly and then faster
7. Repeat 5 but hold the blades
8. While on the ground, push down on the rotor head and listen
These tests may give you the clue you need. When you find the reason
it will make sense, it's not magic.
Hamo
10-01-2008 06:19 PM
 
 
playfair
Key Veteran
Location: Rochester, NY

I would bet that if you just leave it sit for a minute or two after starting the idle will drop just the same. It's probably a slightly rich low end that's slowly "flooding" the engine.


The sky is our canvas
10-01-2008 06:29 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Quote 
I would bet that if you just leave it sit for a minute or two after starting the idle will drop just the same. It's probably a slightly rich low end that's slowly "flooding" the engine.

Nope, since when you carry it , when it starts to die, you can "save" it by putting it down again...


Team Autopartner - Team pilot
10-01-2008 07:05 PM
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

Quote 
When carrying the heli, the rpms drop because the heli doesn't like being carried. When it's on the ground, rpms rise because it is getting excited in readiness for a spectacular lift off

Ahh


Team Autopartner - Team pilot
10-01-2008 07:06 PM
 
 
Hamo
Senior Heliman
Location: Ireland

Quote 
When I carry my heli, the idle rpms, get's lower

When you carry the heli you hold it close to your body. It's obvious your heli doesn't like you or is afraid of you and prefers to be on the ground.
Hamo
10-01-2008 07:11 PM
 
 
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Main Discussion > Nitro idle, on the ground vs carried.
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