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Main Discussion > Can you soak up too much info/ become obsessed with numbers and forget to fly the machine?
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

Hi All

I thought of a little poll, i have often been told i listen to too much information and rather than sit and number crunch or read too much into why things happen just get out there fly the damn thing...

Are numbers, working out power to rate ratios the be all and end all of our models ? As is working out head loads, working what the maximum sized blades for your head is rather than just go out and set one up, ?

It seems to be prevalent more in the turbine arena and scale arena,
I have the hardest job, with the scale machines i have flown they all fly like a bag off doo doo, the head speed seems very slow and tail seems sluggish, but i have always been told welcome to scale, that is how the full size flies.... i have to adapt and learn to fly scale, is it really another skill or a poor excuse for a machine that is not up to the job ?



I was interested in opinions and not a slagging match..

Matt

"Say it with flowers. Buy her a triffid"
09-30-2008 03:31 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

I don't know about the over-analyzing part but I do know that I picked up my Raptor with a VERY low headspeed this weekend, like 1200 RPM, maybe lower. It was extremely mushy, had zero room for error and if the engine died I would have crashed. up'd the HS and it was back to normal.

Was kinda cool to hover around with the head so slow you could almost tach it by blinking fast and counting. If I had a 100 hr. project wrapped around that Raptor it would definitely run AT LEAST 1600 RPM. I know it may not be scale but it's MUCH safer, especially if you had to do an auto.

...yep...
09-30-2008 04:00 PM
 
 
toolman18
Key Veteran
Location: Portland, Texas

Matt,
First of all....I'm not the greatest pilot out there but i do have an opinion on this. I used to be so into making sure that the heli was setup perfect and had the latest upgrades. The helis always flew great but i was scared to death to fly them. Couldnt do any great maneuvers to show off my skillz. Now i fly a Raptor, Mini Titan and Honey bee fixed pitch. I have never tracked or balanced the HBFP. The other 2 i did basic setups and flew. Now i fly with more confidence. It really helps to detach yourself from the machine a bit. I wouldnt skip any normal setup procedures but i wouldnt get carried away with everything being exact. Trim it and fly it.

Now on the scale side....If i had a scale bird i would make sure the head and tail were as good if not better than a regular pod and boom set up. If that baby decides to go down(and they do)you need to at least be able to auto pretty descent. Get the headspeed up and lock that tail in. Dont worry about the #'s or youll be forking out the dollars to cover the repairs.

This is just my 2 cents.

We need video proof around here.
09-30-2008 04:16 PM
 
 
FBoss
Key Veteran
Location: Aurora Indiana USA

Like toolman Im not the greatest pilot but do have an observation of myself. I spend a great deal of time in building and rebuilding. Also in wire routing and every other detail. More than once, unsure of this or that, I have torn a set up apart to check that it was done right. I mean it takes me 3-4 weeks to set up a heli. I know it has cost me tons of stick time being so picky.

I often wonder if I do that so I wont fly. You know if you are not flying its hard to crash and when you are flying its easy to crash! On the otherhand I just love the feeling of completing a flight. No other feeling just like it. I will say this on the set up time though, when I first started I was much more slapit together and fly and I always felt, well I didnt trust the bird. Ever since I became much more detail oriented, I am much more confidant of the bird and as a result my flying skills have advanced much faster. Sometimes its hard to tell what is behind, or unrealised reasons, are driving what we do and why. I dont know but I do love to fly AND build.........
more endless babble............

The good ole times are now ,000132
09-30-2008 04:31 PM
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

Cracking comments guys....

I too am not the best pilot,someone said to me in regards to one ofmy machines, "Matt you are lfying it better than you ever have, you have got comfortable with it, and enjoy fliyng it" why fix something that isnt broke...

It is just one skilled osbserver watched my turbine video and said you seem to be flying around the machines problems, he felt my head was nodding due to low head speed and if i had to auto i was flying right on the limits of the machines capablities, with those sized blades and weight...

You then get someone else saying to you, forget the maths,it flies, and you are enjoying flying it...

So you end up spinning around in a dizz...

Matt

"Say it with flowers. Buy her a triffid"
09-30-2008 04:49 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
dredevil
Senior Heliman
Location: New Oxford,Pa US

Yes!
09-30-2008 05:05 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Havoc
Key Veteran
Location: Ky.

Quote 
with the scale machines i have flown they all fly like a bag off doo doo, the head speed seems very slow and tail seems sluggish, but i have always been told welcome to scale, that is how the full size flies.... i have to adapt and learn to fly scale, is it really another skill or a poor excuse for a machine that is not up to the job ?

I think scale flying is another skill. Not any more difficult but just a different set of rules. At least when they are big and heavy. Certainly the better it is set up, the better it will fly. It's not going to piro flip no matter how well you set it up. I've been trying to make mine lighter and have been putting a lot of time in flying it. I think it flies much better now. Although I think the low headspeed is more of a mental trick than an actual problem. If it seems to hover at a reasonable pitch, it's fine. But effective translational lift is way more noticeable than any sport heli and settling with power is the real deal on a heavy scale heli.
09-30-2008 05:30 PM
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

Although I think the low headspeed is more of a mental trick than an actual problem.

Good point,

Daredevil

Very funny,

Matt

"Say it with flowers. Buy her a triffid"
09-30-2008 06:32 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

I use numbers and data (on my Electrics, 50-90 sized), not primary to get the perfect power, but to get longest flighttime with acceptable poweroutput in form of least bogging for my flying rutine.

It takes a "toll" on my flying skills to constantly have several machines that you need to "diagnose", but for me its part of the hobby, fly some, crunch data on some.


Team Autopartner - Team pilot
09-30-2008 06:57 PM
 
 
TachyonDriver
Veteran
Location: Chipping, Lancs, UK

Ever noticed how STABLE full size helis are compared to our models?

Forget the "scale headspeed" approach IMHO. Get the headspeed up to make the heli STABLE - no nodding, no mushy tail, just good no no-nonsense, safe for the model, locked-in handling characteristics.

The trick is then, to actually move the sticks enough to fly it in a scale manner, even if the model setup allows it to do 20 pirouettes per second, YOU don't have to allow that.

Tach.

EDIT spelling.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy® DON'T DISS THE DINO!!
09-30-2008 07:03 PM
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

The trick is then, to actually move the sticks enough to fly it in a scale manner, even if the model setup allows it to do 20 pirouettes per second, YOU don't have to allow that.

that is one of the most sensible comments i have ever heard from a scale flyer, i agree with that 100%... and that is what a friend told me, set the right speed for the hellie and what the head can take to make it stable, then once you have the hellie flying correctly fly it scale...

great comment

Matt

"Say it with flowers. Buy her a triffid"
09-30-2008 07:23 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

this is where heavier flybar paddles and exponential radio settings can really help out.

...yep...
09-30-2008 07:28 PM
 
 
wiseman
Heliman
Location: Uk

Good comments,
I haven't been flying for long I was told to keep the model as standard as possible if it flies like a pig then fly it, it will make you a better pilot when you fly something that is set up right.I envy those pilots in the old days before all these electronic aids HH gyro's buddy leads carbon blades computer radio's ect: those were the days when pilots were pilots
09-30-2008 08:00 PM
 
 
TachyonDriver
Veteran
Location: Chipping, Lancs, UK

Back in they day they could only hover though

Tach.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy® DON'T DISS THE DINO!!
10-01-2008 05:00 PM
 
 
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Main Discussion > Can you soak up too much info/ become obsessed with numbers and forget to fly the machine?
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