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Aerial Photography and Video > Maxi Joker motor pinion problem...
 
 
iflybyu77
Key Veteran
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

I've got a Maxi Joker 2 that has a 14t pinion on the front that the "top" part of the guide has come loose. In fact it popped off. It wasn't in flight but rather on the bench that it happened, so no problem with the machine itself. What can I do with it? JB Weld or ?? Or should I replace the pinon? And if so, how the heck to do I get it off now? It's stuck quite well, and I can't seem to pop it off short of a pinion puller.

The motor it is on is the Pletty, just FYI.

Ideas?

I saw a few threads on this topic, but never saw a solution short of buying a new one?
09-26-2008 06:25 AM
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Seablade
Key Veteran
Location: floating around

Do a search in the minicopter joker forum and you'll find your answer.

"Vini, Vidi, Velcro"
09-26-2008 07:58 AM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

With out having to search RR, yes replace the pinion, this issue isn't a frequent issue but has occurred.

Replace the pinion its cheaper then replacing the heli after a crash caused by a failing pinion.

As for getting it off.... if its on there good then i'd use a pinion puller, you can try taking a soldering iron and heating the shaft to loosen any locktight that sometimes makes it easier.

Derek Bledsoe
TRIAX
flyboyap.com
Joker 2 HD
09-26-2008 08:41 AM
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Replace with a new pulley.
You have to make sure the belt is not riding on the pinion collars.
I use a black marker on both collars and if you see the black marker wearing off adjust alignment.

I think noobs used a laser level and has some high quality pic to show somewhere.
09-26-2008 03:12 PM
 
 
nooobsKey Veteran - Location: Toronto, Canada -
09-26-2008 03:26 PM
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iflybyu77
Key Veteran
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

I pulled the pinion this AM and looked at it closely to see how the ring is affixed. it appears it is pressed on and then some sort of pin is used to stamp a detent on 3-4 points to suplement the contact area. I ordered a new pinion from Joe, then took the pinion over to the workbench and put the two pieces back together, then grabbed a hammer and small blunt pin and duplicated the same press indents, and added about 6 others.
It didn't take much to do this, and I did everything I could to try to knock it loose and there is no way its coming off now.

I have a new one on the way, as backup and will try the black marker trick to verify it isn't wearing improperly. I don't see that what I have done is any different from what Minicopter does with them from the factory, plus I may have made it stronger.
09-26-2008 03:31 PM
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iflybyu77
Key Veteran
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Update - I reinstalled the pinion and took a look at the alignment. As I move the pinion up and down on the motor, the belt stays low, as in it stays out towards the end of the motor shaft. I can watch the belt on the rear pulley come down, and partially off, but the front stays low. If I move it up, it does the same. Intuition tells me that it is going to pull the other side off the motor pulley. I think. The motor is flat, secure, and tension allows for approximately a 90 turn of the belt. I'm confused now..
09-26-2008 05:52 PM
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rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

I think Gerd mentioned that you might have to shim the motor(with paper :confused and not the pulley sometimes.
09-26-2008 06:03 PM
 
 
iflybyu77
Key Veteran
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Good grief. Paper? That's probably what I'll have to do. I haven't been able to reach Gerd on the first issue (yet), so I appreciate the suggestion. One thing is for sure, the top aint coming off the pulley.

This is one thing the laser technique would not reveal. now way to see precisely if the pulley is off angle or not. Which leads me to wonder if the motor mount has bent under the pressure of being under tension... Hmmmm..
09-26-2008 06:25 PM
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tabbytabb
Elite Veteran
Location: seattle

The static alignment can sometimes differ from the alignment under load as well. I can also see the belt riding up and down from time to time as you load/unload the heli.


Never had the flange break yet though thankfully.

Maybe the joker needs some kind of counterbearing like the logo 600.

Also it would be neat if the actro shaft was long enough you could put a collar on it to prevent the flange from departing.


Tabb
09-26-2008 07:18 PM
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iflybyu77
Key Veteran
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

I have six (6) pieces of paper inserted just at the front bolt holes on the motor mount. It still rides down. If I manually by hand push the motor aft with the two front screws loosened, and then turn the motor, the belt will tend to stay centered. Argh.
09-26-2008 07:21 PM
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ehx
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern Minnesota

JB Weld a shim on top of the flange. Use the quick setting stuff - less warping potential. That will keep the top flange from coming off.

http://www.runryder.com/fastphoto/9012/pinion-2043.jpg

As for getting the belt to ride right, the most important thing is for the belt to stay in the middle of the rear pulley since it doesn't have any flanges. The motor shaft probably won't go all the way through the pinion. If you have to shim the motor mount use some metal shim stock, not paper.

Don't go too crazy trying to get everything set perfectly on the bench. The motor mount will flex a tiny bit under load. There is an upgrade to make the mount stiffer (#848) which should help, but I would guess that there will even be a tiny amount of flex in the motor shaft during load/unload periods.

Ultimately point a little video camera at the pinion/belt area and record some video during flight. You should see the belt move up and down during disk loading/unloading. If the belt is always staying on one flange you've got a problem.

For my setup, I have the belt riding high (on the bottom pinion flange) when on the bench and turning the motor by hand. Under load just hovering it still tends to stay high, but with a little blade pitch increase it will move low temporarily. This has worked well for years.
09-26-2008 08:50 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Here is the post I was thinking about:

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t371353p1/
09-26-2008 09:34 PM
 
 
iflybyu77
Key Veteran
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

So the shim under the front / rear of the motor issue is not uncommon, correct?
09-26-2008 10:10 PM
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Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

When flying the Robbes I found that these types of belts tend to go one way or the other under load. So if you check the tracking of the belt, it has to be as the system is driven in the correct direction. If it goes in the driven direction, it goes one way. If you back drive it, the belt goes the other way. If you flip the belt over, you will note it reverses the direction that it wants to go in. That is assuming your two pulleys are exactly parallel. Take the blades off and run the motor at low speed to see where it wants to track. Shim from there. The belt tends to ride toward the tighter side if I recall correctly.

If it rides hard on the flange, it will actually wear/cut the thin flange right off. Maybe you might want to try a new belt too to see if that helps.

keepin' it real
09-27-2008 12:54 PM
 
 
iflybyu77
Key Veteran
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Stet,

I tested your theory. It seems to be correct in this case. Interesting that it rides up/down depending on direction of rotation. I imagine some of this may be due to wear patterns as well.

I used to think gear meshing was the only headache I'd have with a heli. Throw belts in the mix!
09-27-2008 08:39 PM
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iflybyu77
Key Veteran
Location: Fort Wayne, IN


Above is the old 14t and the new 13t. The new one is the bigger of the two. You can see that the new one is 2mm overall bigger than the 14t, even though the tooth count is one less. Also, the "top" has a collar that should keep the guide from popping off. The bottom also appears to be a thicker material and machined differently.

After adding two washers on the front, and checking things out, it appears that the belt moves up and down instead of staying at the bottom. Turning it ccw on the bench yields this movement. I have not flown it yet, so I don't know what it may be doing dynamically.

I wasn't aware that the pinion was made different now, but it seems that this new pinion is a bit more robust.
09-30-2008 04:29 PM
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nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

I also noticed this on the tail pinion. It seems Gerd is making them differently. The new tail pinion looks more solid as well.
09-30-2008 04:36 PM
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iflybyu77
Key Veteran
Location: Fort Wayne, IN

It just occurred to me that if you machined the pinion with the ability to add a collar to the top AND bottom, these problems would go away. Can't think of a reason why they can't machine it that way, and then add the two and drill the hole for the top conventionally to hold to the shaft, and the bottom as either a pass through bolt or two grubs that are tapped to hold onto the bottom of the pinion... just a thought...
09-30-2008 04:36 PM
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nooobsKey Veteran - Location: Toronto, Canada -
As Stet was saying... it happened to me awhile back...

Inspected the heli after a flight test.

09-30-2008 04:44 PM
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