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e-Miniature Aircraft Furion - Razor - Ion-X > Ion X-2 head speed recomendations
 
 
TaleGunner
Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

OK guys I stepped up and bought a used Ion X-2 from rappi112
He has done an excellent job of setting this bird up. We had a little issue with DHL loosing it for a while then damaging it slightly but were getting that all handled. (just a note to anyone shipping lipos customs / TSA will remove them if found, the 4 beautifull batts in the pic were removed with a little note from TSA)

Anyhow I have installed a AR-7000 rec and set my throttle curve to 85% with gov mode on, My optical tach says 1780rpm she seems to fly very well but I guess I expected a little more from a 12s bird on 710mm blades. I would like to know some opinions on recommended head speed / preferred head speed / and max head speed. Maybe some blade recommendations as well.

also would any of you switch from a futaba 611 gyro to a jr 770 for this bird. ( I have 401 and 770 on my smaller birds) I have never set up a 611 before and it hold great just has a slow wag and I mean slow I'm sure its a setup issue.

here is the setup
Actro 32-3 Single stage gearing with 100T main, also have 95T
Phoenix Hv 110
AR-7000 rec
3 X Futaba 9451
1 X GY611 with 9256
12s1p 4200 & 5000
Duralite regulator 6v
Flight Power Evo RX 1600 2s2p.
SAB 710
SAB 110 tail blades
Min Air open tailbox.
Min Air Metal Anti – Rotation.

although this is my 8th electric heli its my first 90 size bird ever so any advice would be appreciated



CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
08-21-2008 12:57 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Wyvern
Heliman
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Hi Talegunner,

What size pinion do you have on your motor?

Cheers,
Warrick

Futaba 14MZ (mode 2)
MA Ion-X2 12S
08-21-2008 03:04 AM
 
 
Fly X Cell
Senior Heliman
Location: Hampton, VA

Lipo

Did you get your lipo's back from customs?

Clarence

Furion 450
Stratus
Ion X2 Actro 32-3
Razor 600
MIniatureAircraftUSA Team Pilot
08-21-2008 03:18 AM
 
 
mlevings
Senior Heliman
Location: Claremore, OK

Ditch the crappy gov mode on the CC esc and turn up the headspeed. It will come to life.
08-21-2008 03:28 AM
 
 
TaleGunner
Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

20t on the pinion

no on the batts they have admited they removed em but dont know were they are

I would love to turn it off if I was sure what was a safe max head speed for this bird.

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
08-21-2008 03:40 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fly X Cell
Senior Heliman
Location: Hampton, VA

HS

I am running 11.37:1 on the gear ratio. I am governed by a Power Jazz @ 1950 HS. Power is awesome. Hope this helps.

Clarence

Furion 450
Stratus
Ion X2 Actro 32-3
Razor 600
MIniatureAircraftUSA Team Pilot
08-21-2008 04:24 AM
 
 
TaleGunner
Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

What pinion and main gear for the 1950? do you run gov mode or pitch curve?

do you know what the max safe head speed is for the Ion X-2? I cant seem to get a straight answer some say 1800 some say 2100 seems if you have been doing 1950 it must be above 1800

Thanks Lonnie

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
08-21-2008 04:41 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
TomC
Veteran
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

Lonnie,

First of all, I would not worry too much about max hs with a MA Ion. These MA heli's are tough and the stock head can easily take +2300 rpm hs. I know cause I ran one at 2350-2400 hs late last year when I was first experimenting with a 15s setup. Mind you, other components like belts, gears, and motors might not like this!

I think that the Ion-x (and pretty well any 90 sized electric) work best between 1850-2050 rpm hs imop. It really depends on what you want to do with it. Hard 3D needs higher Hs's and 2000-2050 is plenty imop. An 1850-1900 hs still gives you 90 sized 3D power and is a lot easier on your motor and battery packs. You need to be able to calc your expected headspeed based on your motor kv and gear-sets, but ~11.5:1 overall ratio sounds about right on 12s with an Actro 32-3.

If I were you, I'd look at going to 690mm main blades (I like Radix and V-blades best). These shorter main blades will give you a bit more cyclic authority and will draw a little less amps. Also, Id go with shorter 105mm v-blades on the tail. Larger 110mm tail blades, together with a great heading-holding Gyro like the 611 might be a bit hard on your torque tube tail-box gears.

Esc-wise, I really like the PowerJazz better than the CC110hv but if you already have the 110hv, you might as well use it imop. You just have to experiment with it a bit to see what works best, either gov mode or fixed heli endpoints (with a 100% idle-up throttle curve). Personally, I found the CC110hv worked best with fixed point 100% idle-up throttle curves. I always got a bit of a tail kick in gov mode, no matter what settings I used. Maybe the latest CC software has improved the gov mode, I don't know.

In any case, good luck and welcome to the Ion-x club!

Cheers,
TomC

CX2 2s
Logo10- 3D 5s
Trex600 10s
2x Ion-x, 1x15s DS, 1x15s SS
08-21-2008 07:33 AM
 
 
Chachin
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL

Hello,

My unloaded headspeed is/was 2040rpms last I checked it (tached prior to take off). This is spinning 690mm V-blades. It gives me plenty of authority for my style of 3D flying . I know some people liked to fly their Ions at around 2100rpms spinning 690's for some serious pop.

Congrats on your Ion purchase, this heli is one sweet ride. Good luck.

Chachin..

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08-21-2008 02:48 PM
 
 
TaleGunner
Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

Chachin

could you post your motor,kv, batt and gear specs for your head speed

I will order some more gears as soon as I figure out what I need

I will also try and run straight trot curve and see what head speed I get.

what seems to be the best motor choice for the ION X-2 seems most are running the actro 32-3 Anyone running something else?

Thanks

CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
08-21-2008 11:23 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ausfly
Heliman
Location: sydney australia

ion

ive got a kit ready to be picked up with a new version scorpion motor which apparently runs smoother and with less heat. not sure what number but will advise. my friend runs upto 2050 with no problems he could go more if he wanted. he is using the jr 770 with 8900 like I have on the rex 500. never had a problem on the rexy but he has now chewed the teeth off the tail geer. he put an extra shim on the open tail which has helped some but he is now mucking around with gain. the 770 is very precise and fast. i will be using the old trusty 502 gyro on mine which has been tweaked to a 601. I have 700 blades going on with a razor flybar for good quick cyclic. 690 would be the go though also

My heli is supported by invisible string. I hate it when the string breakes. Rappy 50v2,futaba,401
08-22-2008 09:25 AM
 
 
TomC
Veteran
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

Wow, like big Kev used to say (before he keeled over)," Now I'm excited"!

Good luck with your new bird.

Cheers,
TomC

CX2 2s
Logo10- 3D 5s
Trex600 10s
2x Ion-x, 1x15s DS, 1x15s SS
08-22-2008 09:53 AM
 
 
stanc
Veteran
Location: Conroe, TX

I use 32-3 in my Ions but have a Scorpion 4035HK (560kV) in my Belt Drive Stratus, loads of power. My HS is between 2000 and 2200 between the three helis. I use CC HV85s and HV110s in all my 90 size helis with an ATG V3 for the governor. The V3 has a 1:1 ratio selection for electrics. In stead of changing the throttle curve to increase or decrease the HS, just change the AUX2 endpoint.

Stan
2 x Ion X2
eStartus
eAvro90
Performance Plus Lipo Packs
08-22-2008 12:11 PM
 
 
Chachin
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL

Sure TaleGunner, here is my current setup:

> ThunderPower 12S 3850mAh Extreme V2
> Actro 32-3 motor with 8mm shaft (555 Kv)
> Kontronik PowerJazz at 80% governor
> 11.27:1 Gear Ratio (93/12t main, 22/32t secondary)

I was previously running a Neu1521-1.5Y (1050 Kv). Lots of power but it finally died on me. For proper 12S gear ratio I had to use a low 17t motor pulley which made me unconfortable with regards to the belt's life. The next motor I will try out will be one of the Scorpions. Good luck.

Chachin..

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08-22-2008 05:43 PM
 
 
TaleGunner
Veteran
Location: Deer Park WA

Great info guys THANKS

I have increased my head-speed to 1900 WOW is all I can say.
It has more pop than my 8s trex 600 I cant believe the power
Makes me want to try 10s on the rex
I am ordering some 690 v blades and will again try a little more head speed. The difference from 1780 to 1900 was incredible can't even imagine 2000 - 2200.

I still have not been able to get the minor tail wag out using the 611 I am sure its just me and getting it dialed in because it flies great and holds great just has the slow wag when it hovers.
One of my friends thinks its the gov surging causing the wag? I cant seem to hear a surge so I'm not sure.
ArmsMaster will be at the club field on Sunday and Ill let him try and tune it out. If not I will try a 770 next week.
I received no directions for the 611 when I got it and only found an online tutorial for set up. anyone know were there is a good setup file of directions. ( I didn't look to hard yet)

does anyone have the formula for head speed calculations for the multi geared helis


Some one PMed me for a photo of my ION and I don't have my camera today so I pulled this from my cache its my E fleet.
for those with a sense of humor take a GOOD look at the foam cub on the wall above my helis



CRASH! GLUE! REPEAT!
08-23-2008 12:48 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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e-Miniature Aircraft Furion - Razor - Ion-X > Ion X-2 head speed recomendations
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