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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > What is it that makes one gasser model so much better than the other.
 
 
shawmcky
Senior Heliman
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

One thing that intruges me is amongst the quality gasser kits,what is it that makes one so much better than the other.Amongst the German,Japanese,American kits are some high quality kit.Does it really come down to personal preference,badge engineering,or what.If everybody that ever built a kit had the same skill levels what would be the outcome of a poll.When it comes to badge engineering do sheep follow sheep.I know the looks of a heli can have a lot to do with it as with cars ect.Nice to know other peoples opinions on this.
08-01-2008 10:12 AM
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
what is it that makes one so much better than the other.

define better? Performance, maintenance and service (flight time compared to bench time), robustness, simplicity (parts count + technical setup), spares, costs...??

Having a machine you daren't fly in case you stack it and can't afford to repair it or it's going to be weeks waiting for bits or take days to re-setup is just as important as stick-banging performance to non stick-bangers


I guess align's rise to popularity is easy, cheap access to parts, simplicity in build, good looks and (perhaps most important) lots of pros throwing them about and making folk believe that owning one will make them to fly like that

Good promotional marketing will outsell an inferior product compared to a better product with little advertising every time (short skirts and uplift bra's versus an anorak and sloppy pants....)

pgk
08-01-2008 11:22 AM
 
 
shawmcky
Senior Heliman
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

What is it that makes one gasser model so much better than the other.

If you follow a lot of forums and builds it does seem some of the kits out there need a lot of tweaking to get them as the manufacturer intended,i dont think this necessarily relates to the price of the kit,sometimes just poor engineering and manufacture.With a well engineered kit ,usually they build easily,fly without major rebuilds for that much longer.I accept the fact that the kit builder can introduce a lot of faults that should not be there.Crashing is part of heli flying for a lot of people and cost is obviously an issue.Does the best kit necessarily mean the parts are most expensive.It would be interesting to have a log of the major manufacturers and see what issues arise,from ease of build,problems encountered during the build,how trouble free when built,(drive chain ect)what it eventually costs to put it right.Looking for the thinking mans helicopter.You can sometimes pay a lot of money for a turd, but also a lot of money for a heli that needs very little major maintenance,that might pay off in the long run.
08-01-2008 12:36 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
You can sometimes pay a lot of money for a turd

Great expression!!

I would just like to add that I can provide cheap turds for anyone that wants them ..on a daily basis if required

pgk
08-01-2008 04:13 PM
 
 
j.8
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark

"I would just like to add that I can provide cheap turds for anyone that wants them ..on a daily basis if required"

Then you would be copying the italian artist
Piero Manzonis

Regards Bo
08-01-2008 04:22 PM
 
 
shawmcky
Senior Heliman
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

pgkevet

Your welcome and no thanks.
08-01-2008 04:22 PM
 
 
Excalibur
Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

I'll take two with fries and a Budweiser!

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
08-02-2008 06:16 AM
 
 
payne1967
Veteran
Location: warwick uk

with my hirobo bell 47 gasser that i bought second hand,
in 5 years of owning it i've only had to:-
i had a roll pin on the tail input shaft break after 2 1/2 years (this was due to poor building by the first owner)
replace the used servo's that came with it after 3 years as they started to fail
the fuel tank bungs split after 4 1/2 years (due to nitro ones fitted and not gas ones by the first owner)
and i changed the original wooden blades for carbon ones

i change the spark plug after every year and use the old ones in the strimmer & hedge cutter

it gets used from march to october each year and then has a good check over in the winter
i don't know how old the heli is but the wear rate is very low

08-02-2008 10:42 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Quote 
what would be the outcome of a poll.When it comes to badge engineering do sheep follow sheep.I know the looks of a heli can have a lot to do with it as with cars ect.Nice to know other peoples opinions on this.

I think pgk did a pretty good job of starting that very poll your asking for when he built his two Gassers and reviewed both in the process,
From the gassers Kit I’ve seen and built I’ve yet to see one that looks to have been designed by engineers that have covered every possible concept, loads of metal frames and frame spacers are a bit old-fashioned and back yard to me, they also make it hard to maintain and even harder to keep things lined up without constant adjustment.
Don’t ask me what new design I would like to see because I’m not an engineer.
But something following these people would be a good start but made in China to keep the cost down.
http://www.blitz-helicopters.com/avro.htm
08-03-2008 12:01 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

I was impressed with the blitz descriptions and their apparent logic. Reality is that their design is a chimera of tempest-like head, vario-like first-stage belt drive and semi-open tail gear-box (closed but you can see into it)

But there's nothing really revolutionary about any of these. I quite like the visual appearance of the predator stacked frames and spacers.. just an unwieldy mess by using stacked spacers and having to bolt on extra bits to improve engine alignment. But does it damp vibration?

Spectra's beautifully smooth clutch system works at the expense of needing much higher rpm to engage.

I'm waiting for a real engineer to optimise these items, simplify them and as Fixit states.. build them cheaper

pgk
08-03-2008 06:42 AM
 
 
shawmcky
Senior Heliman
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

What makes one so much better.

What i was looking for was the top helicopter kit recommended by the experiences of ownership of the most experienced gasser pilots.Long term use usually shows up all the gremlins in a bad design.From my perspective,from what i have read,Minair products in their gasser range at least(my point of interest)seem to be up amongst the best.
08-03-2008 10:18 AM
 
 
shawmcky
Senior Heliman
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

payne1967

Nice scale helicopter you have there,i too am a fan of the older machine,just because its older doesnt make it less reliable,eh.Only makes the pilot nervous.
08-03-2008 10:25 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

I've now built a couple Predators, a Spectra, and a QWW 20cc, and have a lot of flight time on the Spectra and Predator. Both the Pred and Spectra are great helis, and fly well.

The Spectra is simpler to get all setup and aligned, it's just the nature of the stacked frames on the Pred that it adds some difficulty. I did find myself fiddling with the Pred pretty much constantly because things would shift and wear, and require adjustment, as well as bits coming loose. Still an awesome heli, but it required constant upkeep.

The Spectra pretty much fell together after deciphering the tiny diagrams in the manual (the stages where you put the frames together are ridiculous, 40 screws on a tiny diagram with lines going everywhere.), and has been rock solid since. It's actually kinda boring, I don't have anything to mess with on it, fuel and fly, that's it. I check screw tightness and meshes etc, and nothing has come loose, nothing has gone out of alignment, it's still just like the day I built it, and I don't baby the thing, I fly it pretty hard. Flying wise, it flies a lot closer to a glow heli than my Pred did. With the pred I constantly felt the weight in the air, the Spectra feels like a 90 in the air, albeit one without as much power.

I wouldn't say that one is "so much better than the other", but in my experience, the Spectra is superior for what I'm doing (which is sport and 3d flying). It has the ability to be stretched so you can run the huge blades like a Pred Condor, and can do all the same things as the Pred, at a lower price. Parts cost are less on the Pred, but availability can be a problem for those parts from Century, and honestly, if you are crashing often enough to worry about parts cost, you probably shouldn't be flying a gasser. If you are into scale helis, the Pred is a better choice, the Spectra is really tall, and I think it'd be tough to stuff it into most scale fuses, where the Pred is shorter and fatter, so it seems like an easier scale platform, although both pale compared to the Varios in that regard.


Nick Crego
Still wanted by the government, I survive as a soldier of fortune.
08-03-2008 03:51 PM
 
 
payne1967
Veteran
Location: warwick uk

shawmcky
if i had any doubt about a model helicopter's reliability i wouldn't fly it
electric, glow, gass, or turbine powered won't make any difference

just because a model is a few years old doesn't make it un-reliable
it's the first few flights you should be nervous of any heli as you just don't know whats going to not work correctly
08-03-2008 07:31 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
shawmcky
Senior Heliman
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

payne1967

I have some old helicopters myself,three Kalt gassers,Graupner Helimax,Morley Maverick.When i said nervous pilot i meant because of the parts availability if you have a crash,some parts are really hard to find now.I know some of these helis are every bit as reliable as any heli today.I totally agree with you ,a well maintained old un is as good as anything else.
08-03-2008 08:34 PM
 
 
payne1967
Veteran
Location: warwick uk

yes i agree about the maintence
i flew (hovered due to the wind) a kalt baron 60 in a bell 400 shell today at the uk vario fly in that has had only 2 flights from new
(only its 2nd tank of fuel ever)
the shell has a lot of hanger rash but when the heli is fully set up i will restore the shell in a full scale paint job

i also fly old graupner mechanic's in scale, i have some morley bell 47's with the mk3 mechanic's
you shouldn't worry about spares (the machine will at some point wear out) as you can either make a replacement or modify something else to fit
08-03-2008 08:46 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
payne1967
Veteran
Location: warwick uk

a full size bell 400 for those of you who don't know what one looks like

08-03-2008 09:03 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
j.8
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark

Funny looking blades

Regards Bo
08-03-2008 11:57 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Those are normal blades, most people don't know that the Bell 400 runs a 12000 RPM head speed. Very stable.


Nick Crego
Still wanted by the government, I survive as a soldier of fortune.
08-04-2008 01:02 AM
 
 
Shiro Muji
Senior Heliman
Location: Japan

maybe you would want to check out some new manufacturers out in the market today. haven't flown the spectra and the predator but the older xcell gasser is not at par with my Maxum in terms of quality of the parts and the flying characteristics as well. some of my friends used this heli as their AP Flatform and are very satisfied with the performance and stability. but to some sports and 3D flying in mind, this heli can also perform well.

Maxum with Hanson 3D Max, Maxum Nitro, Maxum 30.5cc modified engine, RH Generator, Sceadu .50Hyper
08-04-2008 04:44 AM
 
 
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