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A Main Hobbies . Boca Bearings . Modefo's RC Helicopters

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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 600 600e on 6s
 
 
Helinorth
Senior Heliman
Location: Terrace Bc Canada

Going to take the plunge on a 600e.In regards to battery and charger purchases would a guy be better of staying 6s for a while and then upgrading to 8 or 10s or do it right off the bat.Not doing any heavy 3d just loops flips rolls and working on some inverted.Would also like some input on chargers and bats. thanks
07-15-2008 06:46 PM
 
 
emag remrofni
Key Veteran
Location: Los Angeles California

I think you'll be happier with the power on 8s than 6s. I had to buy a $270 motor for 6s to be as powerful as I'd like. So for an 8s pack, two FP 4s 3700's should work nicely in a series and for the charger, I'd get a Thunder Power 610c because it comes with a balancer and is pretty cheap compared to the 1010c.

**Compass Models**
**Modefo's Heli's**
**Lightning Power Batteries**
07-15-2008 06:50 PM
 
 
Helinorth
Senior Heliman
Location: Terrace Bc Canada

so if your going to turf the stock motor & esc right off the hop what is the recomendation there.(starting to really add up)Or would would it be better to get a charger that will do up to 12s and get a couple of 6s batts and use up the current setup?
07-15-2008 07:46 PM
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

I have a 610C and its a good charger, but not a power house. Get either 1010C or a Hyperion 610i Duo for room to grow as time goes on, the 610C's 6S capability at 80 watts (max 3amp charging) is its limiting features. For a 500 Rex is perfect, but after that, its better to invest in a more capable charger.

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
07-15-2008 07:48 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Helinorth
Senior Heliman
Location: Terrace Bc Canada

I was looking at the hyperion 0610iduo with balancer 12s 10a 360 watt and thought i wuold be able to grow into it.but can't decide what to do as far as motor battery combo.
07-15-2008 08:03 PM
 
 
helimatt
Elite Veteran
Location: Lafayette, IN

There's been a lot of talk here about 8S setups on the 600- I plan on converting and PROBABLY getting the Neu 1910/1Y heli motor, and maybe FlightPower evolite batteries, or zippy packs from HobbyCity.

Yes, if you jump off from the stock motor/esc then it begins to add up quickly that is why I am deferring the purchases myself...

other 8S motors:
Century 650 or ZPower Z50 800kv
ThunderTiger motor for their ERaptor 660
New Medusa 36-60-1600 (don't know much about that one yet)

There are others of course. The ZPower, Century, and ThunderTiger motors are probably all the same motor really.

I think the Medusa and the Neu look most promising to me for price-to-quality considerations. I had a smaller ZPower on 6S that did really well, but failed a premature death; no hope of getting service on that one. Neu and Medusa give good service for repairs etc.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.
07-15-2008 08:45 PM
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

I hear the Century motors are pretty good, well priced and I'm sure you can get service through heli-world, they've always been very good to me in the past for stuff like that.

Personally, I would like to get a 50 size electric and try out a Century 650 with 12S A123's.

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
07-15-2008 08:54 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Helinorth
Senior Heliman
Location: Terrace Bc Canada

What would the esc of choice be if i were to go away from stock?
07-15-2008 09:08 PM
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Jazz is probably the best esc you can buy and they're big $$. After that, you have the CC85HV, seems to be a mixed crowd. Some hate it some swear buy it. Not to mention its pretty huge compared to the Jazz in terms of size.

Then you have me who wants the cheapest stuff I can get cause I've seen many a Jazz go 'pop' just never know. I'm looking to try out the Electron 85/110A esc by Century. Can buy almost two for the price of one Jazz. Worth a shot and worse case scenario it blows under normal use and gets warranty work or replacement.

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
07-15-2008 09:19 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Helinorth
Senior Heliman
Location: Terrace Bc Canada

Helimatt how long have you been running your setup on 6s in regards to cycles i've been following your posts on 600 for a while seems like you've been through some motors and batts.if you had to do it over would you start fresh on 8 10 or 12s what about a123 i haven't heard to muchabout them as far as pack costs,charging etc
07-15-2008 09:39 PM
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

In depth info about A123 cells here:
http://site.buya123systems.com/ANR26650M1specs.pdf

Cells are about $15 a pop, people usually get them from Dewalt Tools line of 36Volt tools, a 10 cell Dewalt pack is about $150 give or take. They have a lower voltage per cell under load, 2.8v versus 3.8v for lipo, so it takes a cell or two extra for A123s to make up for the lower voltage pack for pack. If you will notice that life cycle of A123 is over 1000 charges at 10C discharge! So, with a high powered heli you can probably expect at least 500 charges on the worst abuse, not bad compared to lipos cycle life under the best conditions.

Only negatives is they are heavy compared to lipos and can sag a little more under load, but if your willing to take on that for 1/2 the price per comprable lipo pack, more charges, no chance of puffing and venting, then its a pretty good move.

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
07-15-2008 09:49 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
helimatt
Elite Veteran
Location: Lafayette, IN

I've looked at A123 and for me I can't stand the added weight to get a similar power setup.

My 6S packs have been an eclectic assortment: FlightPower Evo 20 4900mAh, FP Evo25 5000mAh, ThunderPower Xtreme 5000mAh (old type), TP Xtreme V2 5000mAh, Airthunder, KongPower 25C 5000mAh, and a PolyQuest (Enerland) 20C 5000mAh, and finally now a Zippy-H 20C 5000mAh pack from Hobby City.

The KongPower/AirThunder packs are heavy, but held up the longest (both have approximately 80 flights on them now) but are showing less punch. The TP V1 and V2 were very good when new (wow!) but died off quickly in about 20 flights. The Enerland pack was better, about 40 cycles before it started to show deterioration. Caveat- I got that pack early in my flying career and the demands have increased as I've learned more 3D type flying. The FlightPower packs also about 30 cycles nd they were very tired. Problem is that the packs seem strong at first but seem to drop to like 80% of their original punch, then hold that level for a long while. They are good for sport or mild 3D flying at that point- bogging during tick-tocks, etc.

The TP packs are way out of balance after a flight. The Kong/Airthunders only need a little balancing.

I have not been very scientific- in retrospect I wish I had kept logs. I have flown several motors, 600L (not bad) another 600L (not as good as the first one for some reason), 600XL (shaft sheared on ~10th flight, but it had decent power), ZPower Z30A was powerful, but short-lived, maybe a fluke; it was my favorite that I've tried.

In all these the packs will get HOT in 5 minutes unless I really take it easy. I don't fly extreme 3D (not that good), but do like to bang it around some. I am sure I am not exceeding the advertised pack capablities, but they sure dont like what they are getting. Others have logged 100-110A spikes- and I average 42A in a flight (~3500-3800mAh put back after a 5 minute flight, timed).

Probably I should have kept flights to 4 minutes and tried to keep the temps lower.

Summary- if you want to fly much 3D, get an 8S or higher setup, or fly short flights and use KongPower or AirThunder packs.

Hey that Zippy-H is only $150 shipped, and now has 10 cycles, its doing well, and doesn't get nearly as hot as the other packs= just warm as it should be.

These are just my experiences as always your mileage may vary.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.
07-16-2008 04:53 AM
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

If you are looking at getting A123 to power a imo a already marginally powered 6S 600e, then no doubt it will be miserable with the added weight. 10S or 12S will provide plenty of power to do anything with the heli and the power will overcome any weight deficiencies, lipo what? I saw a 12S a123 powered Logo 500(very light and with 550mm) and it wasn't hurting for power one bit.

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
07-16-2008 06:32 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
helimatt
Elite Veteran
Location: Lafayette, IN

Yes, you can power a 600 with A123 and get good power, but short flight times. Or similar flight times, but very heavy. I like to fly light aircraft, not heavy ones. The A123's smaller capacity is offset by quick charge times, but for me carrying 4 or 5 lipo packs, I rarely fly long enough to be wishing for another. Sometimes I just charge the first one I flew as I fly the others, and can get another flight on that one, without investing in multiple chargers.

The main thing that would attract me to A123 is excellent longevity, but going to 8S or 10S on a Trex600, the current draws will be more reasonable and lipos will live longer.

A123 is good technology, and fills the bill for some folks, just for me, for a given power and flight time, clearly Lipos have better power density when delivering similar Amps.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.
07-16-2008 01:12 PM
 
 
Sillyness
Senior Heliman
Location: Little Rock AR

You can get a 600E GF at Grand RC for $299, without a motor or ESC you'll never use.

I use:
Neu 1910H/1Y
CC PH-85HV
FP 3700 8S
Western Digital Hercules 5 Amp BEC
Western Digital Tail Stepdown

This setup weight the same as a 6S setup.

Outrage has some 8S 3700 packs out, but I haven't tried them.

My temps, with 2100 RPM and RT 610mm C-Tip blades, in 90F weather:

Motor: 130F
Battery: 125F
Speedo: Ambient

Cheers
07-16-2008 05:39 PM
 
 
Ben-T-Spindle
Elite Veteran
Location: Central Illinois

Quote 

You can get a 600E GF at Grand RC for $299, without a motor or ESC you'll never use.

That’s the helicopter that I fly – it’s a great deal for those who want to upgrade to 8s.




... BTS
07-16-2008 08:01 PM
 
 
Helinorth
Senior Heliman
Location: Terrace Bc Canada

has anyone else tried the zippy packs? ithink i might just stick with 6s for now rather than opening up a big can of worms.If i get a decent charger and a few batts for now i can also dive in after iwear that stuff out.
07-16-2008 10:04 PM
 
 
duke666
Senior Heliman
Location: Hampshire, UK

Hey Sillyness,

What flight times you getting out of those FP3700?

Duke
07-18-2008 07:29 PM
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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > T-REX 600 600e on 6s
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