RunRyder - 5-Bladed MD-530 Raptor 50

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Scale Model RC Helicopters > 5-Bladed MD-530 Raptor 50

Ironside
Senior Heliman
Location: Baltimore, MD

I thought I'd share my latest project. I thought I'd give flybarless scale heads a shot to see how I like them. The biggest issue and the one thing that took the longest was getting all of the blades balanced. Using a Koll Pro Blade Balancer and a 1/10th gram digital scale I set out to get them all squared away. When I ordered them, the heaviest set came in at 121.7oz while the lightest set came in at 111.3oz. So needless to say I had to add alot of weight to get the CG true and balanced. After it was all said and done each of the six blades came in at 124.5oz. The reason they are heavier than the original heavy blade is because when I balanced them I didn't account for the weight of the epoxy. So I had to keep adding tape to each of them until they were all balanced and the CG was correct on each of them. I also wanted to try and fly it without the mixer which indeed flew fine but I liked the idea of having straight links so I put it back on. The 2 CSM 180's are in the doghouse and the GY401 is mounted up front on top of the servo tray. Since I didn't have anyone locally to help me out everything was trial and error. Fortunately I didn't have too many errors and everything proved to work great. The only issue that I am having now is an up-and-down vibration in the vertical/horizontal fin. I think this is due to the tail blades that I am using (no name 92mm). I am going to buy some Radix 92mm this weekend so hopefully that will fix the issue. I want to try and make sure that they are balanced before I spend the money though. As far as flight characteristics, it flies the same as a flybarred head. I do have to add a little collective in turns but other than that it wasn't as stressfull as I thought it'd be. I did plenty of searches here to find out how people before me had did it but I couldn't find anyone. One other thing that had to be done was to change the gear ratio of from the standard 8.5 to to 9.56 is really the only other viable solution in the Raptor frame. This allowed me to achieve a good flying head speed of 1500. I may try 1600 the next time I go out. At 1600 this would put the OS50 Hyper right at its optimal powerband. I think it's going to be too high on the head but I may try it to see how I like it. All in all I am very happy with the way it looks and flies. Once I figure out the vibration problem, I may give painting a shot (which I've never done). Listed below is the setup that I am running. Hopefully this will help out anyone that has thought about doing the mode/upgrade but didn't want to be the test dummy

. The next time I go out I will have the wife get a video of it. Thanks to Joel for the help with the Helitronix Mixer and to Butch (bwellmaker) for all of their help as well.

Raptor 50SE
OS 50 Hyper w/ 9.56 Gear ratio
(4) Airtronics 94758Z (115oz torque)
GV-1 Governor
GY-401 Gyro for tail rotor
(2) CSM 180 Gyros for Aileron and Elevator
Fromeco 5200mah Li-Io battery pack w/ Arizona Regulator
DSM AR9000 (9 Channel) Spektrum Receiver
Helitronix Mixer
Century 5-Blade Head
92mm Carbon Tail Blades
(5) 530mm Heli-Max Carbon blades
JR 9303 w/ DSM 9-Channel Spektrum Module

07-12-2008 05:34 PM

HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Your 5 blade set-up looks great!!!

What do you like best about the CSM?

Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired

07-12-2008 06:57 PM

Ironside
Senior Heliman
Location: Baltimore, MD

They are the gyros that I was advised to get in setting up the Century 5-Blade head. I read on another post that some (not all) people were having issues with the GY240 plus I didn't have the extra receiver channels for the GY401 since you would have to start it in HH and the switch it to normal mode. This was my first crack at multiblade so I went with what was recommended and thankfully it worked out well for me. Thanks for compliment also. I'm happy with it.

07-12-2008 07:14 PM

bwellmaker
Senior Heliman
Location: Long Island

Ironside,

Dude, That looks great. I am glad to here it is going well. You know I am going to follow you lead.

It is a bit windy here today so I am drinking beer and have some Baby Backs on the grill.

Butch

07-12-2008 07:51 PM

Ironside
Senior Heliman
Location: Baltimore, MD

Forget the helicopter. I need to be where your at. Baby Backs and Beer - sounds a little like heaven to me.

07-13-2008 01:21 PM

Copter Doctor
Elite Veteran
Location: daleville/ft.rucker, al

thankks for sharing your experiences. multiblade flying is quickly becoming popular. with Butch and Joel in your corner, you have great help too.

hb

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft

07-14-2008 01:14 AM

HOMEPAGE

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

really nice guy !!

""The only issue that I am having now is an up-and-down vibration in the vertical/horizontal fin""

I'm betting you have one tail blade that is heavy,, balance your tail blades, get them the same weights ..

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

07-14-2008 09:33 AM

Ironside
Senior Heliman
Location: Baltimore, MD

I checked the tail blades on Saturday and they have a weight difference of .1 grams. You guys think that will be okay or should I try to get them exactly the same? I also found that my tail rotor shaft is slightly bent. I am getting a new one today so I will see if that helps. I will keep you guys informed of the progress.

07-14-2008 01:16 PM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

"" also found that my tail rotor shaft is slightly bent""

there you go,, get that new shaft on/,, fly,, then worry about the tail blades..

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

07-14-2008 09:11 PM

Helitronix
Senior Heliman
Location: Marlborough, MA - USA

Glad to hear that you got it going so well! The heli looks great!

Joel-

07-15-2008 07:13 PM

ZAC ATTACK
Veteran
Location: Hamilton Ontario, CANADA

That blade set-up cost more then the kit! Nice Helicopter!

MAAC#77677 Medicated daily for your protection

07-17-2008 12:52 AM

Ironside
Senior Heliman
Location: Baltimore, MD

Anything worth having (especially something your really interested in) is going to cost you. We do it because we love it. Besides its all psychological for me. I tend to do things in small steps. I will buy a little here and a little there until I have everything I need. This way it doesn't seem as though I've just broke the bank. Yeah it's all the same money but mentally it makes me feel a whole lot better to spend $30 here - $50 there over the course of 2 months than to spend $1000 at one time

. I've learned patience since getting into the hobby and have since done away with the impulsive nature that I use to have of wanting something right now and then just go charge it on the credit card if I didn't have the cash. However there are people in this hobby that have a $1000 of spendable cash lying around and can just go spend it. It's all about what you can afford and what's important to you. How expensive something is is all relative. Just depends on who looking or asking the question. Anyways, thanks for the comment. I enjoy it.

07-18-2008 01:41 PM

tintmaster
Heliman
Location: Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

5 blade Century head

I love your helicopter. I was wondering where you got the head and blades? I have 2 Raptor 50's and looking to do a scale model. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Eugene

07-18-2008 11:30 PM

Ironside
Senior Heliman
Location: Baltimore, MD

I actually found the head and swash here on RR for a really good price. They are both Century products. The blades are Heli-Max 530mm carbons. You will need to go to Sports Authority or somewhere similar and purchase some fishing lead shots so that you can balance them. Surprisingly both the Century setup and the blades complemented each other quite well. You may also want to purchase some longer ball links as I did. I found that at full collective with some cyclic input the link was sitting right on the head which is not a good thing.
Any help you may need don't hesitate to ask. I will share what I know and only what has worked for me. I understand that sometimes it's a little nerve racking trying something new and not sure if you are heading down the right direction. Shoot me a PM if you need to and I will do what I can to help out. Here are some links to what I used and what worked for me.

DIAMOND 5 BLADE IGD ROTORHEAD SYSTEM
http://www.heli-world.com/detail.aspx?ID=3587

5 BLADE SWASH PLATE (10mm) - Multi-Blade Rotor Head
http://www.heli-world.com/detail.aspx?ID=9209

OF Multi Blade Swashplate Follower (Driver)
http://www.starwoodmodels.com/products/of/multiacc.php

Heli-Max Carbon Blade Set 530mm
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...p?&I=LXJPH9&P=7

0109 Threaded Steel Ball m3x8
http://www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=300374

0514 Koll Rotor Pro Balancer
http://www.heliproz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=114145

My Weigh iBalance 300 (i300) - Precision Lab Digital Jewelry Scale
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/i...WPROD&ProdID=40

I also purchased a Helitronix mixer and (2) CSM 180 gyros for the cyclics. You don't necessarily need the mixer for the head but it does allow for electronic 45° phasing which in turn allows you to keep the links from the swash to the head straight rather than mechanically moving the swash driver around the main shaft until you achieve proper phasing. I tried it without it and it actually flew quite well but I liked the fact of having the links as parallel to the main shaft as possible.
The same applies for the gyros on the cyclics. Although not needed, at least putting one on the elevator tremendously improved the flight characteristics. It kept the heli from wanting to balloon up in FFF. Again you can deduct I did try it without it and it does fly but I think you would really appreciate having the gyros (at least on the elevator) if you plan on doing any type of high speed passes. Here are the links to where I got the mixer and the gyros.

Helitronix Multi-Mixer Standard for Flybar-Less Heads
http://www.starwoodmodels.com/produ...multi-mixer.php

ICG180 Rate Gyro
http://www.advantagehobby.com/produ...30&cat=0&page=1

Now I also should mention that you want to make sure you have a really good battery system. With the draw of 5 digital servos, rudder gyro, mixer, and 2 cyclic gyros, you dont want to run out of juice in mid-flight. Just make sure you check the battery before each flight the first few times until you have an idea of how much draw is being put on the battery as well as how many flights you can get on a single charge. I use a 5200mah Li-Io flat pack from Fromeco with an Arizona Regulator. It allows me to fly all day with no worries. Here are the links:

Relion 5200 Flat
http://www.fromeco.org/Products/01F...14/Default.aspx

Arizona Regulator Deans In
http://www.fromeco.org/Products/02F...02/Default.aspx

Now I have to mention that I am no expert at this. As a matter of fact this is my first multi-blade system. Others may chime in on a better, cheaper, and/or more efficient way of achieving the same results. I am only attesting to what has worked for me. So hopefully this helps and if I can help out in any other way let me know.

Lamont

07-19-2008 02:38 PM

tintmaster
Heliman
Location: Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

info on 5-bladed md raptor 50

Thanks for all th information. Looks like I'm in for a great build.

07-19-2008 03:04 PM

tintmaster
Heliman
Location: Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

interested!!!!

Hello, I got your email. My outgoing doesn't work, so call me at 316-204-6933 so we can descuss this. Thanks, Eugene

07-22-2008 12:09 AM

bwellmaker
Senior Heliman
Location: Long Island

I don't mean to hijack a thread, but here are some pictures of a little side project I am working on. It will end up as something with 5 blades someday. AW-139 maybe. I have not done any fiberglass fab work sense my scale hydro days. Hummmm. This is pretty much the same setup Ironside has on his project. I have yet to install a gyro on the elevator however I am very pleased with the stability in some slower forward flight. The Rotor Tech 515mm blades are pretty light and thin for the grips so I made some custom spacers.

Butch

08-03-2008 10:53 PM

Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

Lookin' sharp Butch. Are the canopy graphics from Callie?

Cheers - Boyd
AMA80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired

08-04-2008 01:53 AM

bwellmaker
Senior Heliman
Location: Long Island

Hey Boyd,

Yes they are Callie. Girlfriend flies another R-50 with the gator Callie Graphics and yellow Raptor canopy. For me, it is better for visibility. I am guessing there is not enough contrast between the orange and yellow on this bird.

Butch

08-04-2008 11:14 AM

bwellmaker
Senior Heliman
Location: Long Island

Go to the field today with my 5 blade Raptor. I was using pretty much the same setup as "Ironside" but with no gyro. I have to say, I am very happy with the flights today, 6 total. After making a couple flight to get everything adjusted and trimmed just right, it flew like a dream. I was thinking the light 515mm Rotor Tech blades, @ 75g each, would have been an issue but it was not. I did not push it to the max but did push pretty hard. Tomorrow is a new day. It is a little touchy in the wind during hover but once I pushed the nose forward it flew very well.

Some Pics,

Butch