RunRyder - ATG - gov mode or rev limiter?

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > ATG - gov mode or rev limiter?

psych-lick
Senior Heliman
Location: Austin, TX - USA

Just curious - how many of you run the ATG and what mode do you use (fully governed or rev limiter)?

If you are running rev limiter - how do you setup your transmitter? Do you kick up the curves way beyond normal or do you dial in the curves perfectly for 3d flight before switching on the ATG?

For the record - I have been running fully gov'd with the ATG but it doesn't seem to keep up with tic-tocs. I've never setup all the curves (only experience is with throttle curves).

-Jeff T.

06-27-2008 06:20 PM

tadawson
Key Veteran
Location: Lewisville, TX

Yes, gov, full flyable curves, respectively . . .

- Tim

The more I touch electrics, the more I grow to hate them . . . .

06-27-2008 07:18 PM

karman
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

running mine in active mode

my curves and alleron/elev mixing was done before cause flew fair while without governer.

on knight 50 i can sit for ages on tic toc. rolls, flips etc without bogging (yes you still need to controll collective)

when i run normall mode, i bog head very easily.. seems like just to slow to react in normal mode.

L:

06-27-2008 09:37 PM

baby_zyklon
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

I prefer the active mode for 3d. In the basic mode, the heli felt very weak and was bogging quite a lot. Headspeed was pretty consistent throughout a easy flight, but once you start to load it up, it loads up a lot more than in the active mode or a tj pro.

In the active mode, the heli feels very light and powerful, however, there was a lot of overspeeding, overspeeding in a tailslide, overspeeding in a hover, overspeeding in pretty much any time you unload the engine. Perhaps my throttle curve wasn't quite tuned, but it just didn't feel consistent. Still, I prefer this mode over the basic mode.

06-28-2008 12:21 AM

HOMEPAGE

Buzzin Brian
Elite Veteran
Location: College Station, Texas

Overspeeding is the ATG pulling the throttle to its thresh hold low point that is set when the unit was set up. This point can be in more than one position. For example if you set your low point when setting up the ATG with the throttle trim at the half way point this tells the ATG that your kill throttle position is actually higher than it really is. This now becomes your kill target point, and the ATG will now use this as the default position to avoid in flight to avoid killing the engine or underspeeding. This is all assuming you have a throttle travel of 100% and 100% on either side of the travel adjust. Any other number throws the settings of a governor off before you even start programing. Set up in ATG mode and normal mode the unit is set to overspeed by about 50 RPM at 0 degrees pitch. This is what gives you the desired power going from one manuver to the next. But can be taylored a little by playing with the throttle trim when setting the low point in the ATG.

I hope this makes sense. If not feel free to PM me and I will help if I can.

Build it, fly it, crash it. Repeat as often as needed.

06-28-2008 02:10 AM

baby_zyklon
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

My throttle epa is not 100/100, but its close, does it matter a lot?

When I first tried the ATG, it was in active mode, my calibration of the lowest throttle was done with the throttle barrel fully closed(in throttle cut). Initially I thought the overspeeding might be caused by my lowest throttle point or sensor position, but after trying it in the basic mode(with virtually no sign of overspeeding), I am starting to think it was due to my throttle curve. Like I said, my throttle curve was just a random V-shape throttle curve, not set to any particular headspeed, so that might have caused the random headspeed change. But I have to admit, the extra rpm made the heli feel pretty good.

How much will a out of tune throttle curve affect the atg in active mode?

06-28-2008 07:39 AM

HOMEPAGE

karman
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

overspeeding

other issue normally with overspeeding is engine tuning

there few threads about atg and overspeeding, most of time ist related to engine tuning, ie cut throttle and motor still hangs few seconds before droppping rev.
mine did that while back, was due to higher nitro, and did not richen bottom end, causing midrange to lean out...

otherwise mine hold my rpm perfect.

L:

06-28-2008 07:44 AM

baby_zyklon
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

I am quite certain the motor/heli/mixture/fuel is right because 3flights(2 in active mode, 1 in basic mode) after the atg, I went back to the TJ pro and everything was working perfectly fine again. It isn't as powerful as when I had the atg in active mode, but it is better than the atg in basic mode, not to mention that the rpm was more consistent.

I still love the atg in active mode though.

06-28-2008 07:50 AM

HOMEPAGE

helirulz
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

wow! From all the responses I see here I think I'll give Active Mode a try. I've been using Basic Mode all this while and my headspeed would load up a bit when doing continuous tictocs and overspeed ever so slightly on long tailslides. Other than that the ATG has worked flawlessly for me.

I may wanna try a more aggressive throttle curve of 100-80-100 and perhaps my 600n can be more responsive that way.
Would you reccommend that kind of throttle curve Brian?

06-28-2008 09:35 AM

karman
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

i don't know about 600n, but compass knight 3d,
100, 60,100, with 30% mixing between elev and aleron for static rolls / flips

think 80 would be tad much.

06-28-2008 03:14 PM

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

It's not a rev limiter,if you get above about 70% in the throttle curve at the 50% position it wont even engage in the active mode.

06-28-2008 03:20 PM

psych-lick
Senior Heliman
Location: Austin, TX - USA

From Curtis' website:

Quote

"Modes of Operation
Basic mode- a simple, quick start option for setting up the ATG. Set the rpm range via push button and indication lights and go fly. Nothing but basic curves needed.

Active Throttle Mode- Much more than just a limiter. In Active Mode ATG allows you to run your throttle curves and mixes to optimize engine performance, while still governing to to a set RPM. ATG passes through all your throttle curves and mixes and simply modifies that signal as needed to keep your set RPM."

Still confused at what exactly Active mode is.
ie.. does it use your throttle input as a primary throttle signal and ONLY override if your engine is overspeeding or underspeeding? If so, what are the tolerances for these condition? Can they be tuned?

-Jeff T.

06-28-2008 03:29 PM

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

Active mode uses your throttle curves and adjusts for if it cant keep up the headspeed.The basic mode doesnt use the throttle curve at all.I prefer the basic mode even though it overspeeds slightly somtimes.

06-28-2008 04:00 PM

Buzzin Brian
Elite Veteran
Location: College Station, Texas

baby_zyklon,

If the numbers are not at 100 and 100 on the throttle channel travel adjust the information being fed to any governor is not linerar information. So the reaction might or might not be what you desire. As a governor alone all the unit is doing is trying to hold a set head speed and this will be a little less critical, but in active mode the unit is relying on a correct set up to use as a refference when trying to control head speed. This includes overspeeding and underspeeding. Look at it kind of like your cars alignment being off. Yes you can get to the store, but its nothing like driving it when it was new. One offers resistance you have to manually adjust for, the other just works the way it is meant to. The most common cause of the horn being off is not finding just the right horn, or using the wrong hole in either the servo horn or the bellcrank on the engine. I have found for instance with a JR servo the outside hole on the shortest arm of a standard JR servo horn is exactly the same throw as the OS 50 hyper with the ball in the inside hole on the engine bellcrank. Set up correctly it WILL overspeed a little between manuvers or when at 0 degrees pitch in flight. It is designed to do this, as this is what is giving you access to the engines power when going from one manuver to the next. I have found that excessive overspeeding is usually not the unit itself, but something else being off a little. When set up correctly I have found the active mode to be quite effective and acurate for me. Oh, and my throttle curve for 3D is 100,85,65,85,100. Seems to work great for me.

FYI, guys if ANYONE needs help or a better explanation of this stuff feel free to contact me. I will do whatever I can to get you headed in the right direction or make this stuff clearer.

Brian

Build it, fly it, crash it. Repeat as often as needed.

06-28-2008 05:58 PM

baby_zyklon
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

Thanks for the reply Brian. I still have a question though. Will increasing the gain help with keeping the rpm a little more consistent? What happens if the gain is brought too high?

06-29-2008 01:18 AM

HOMEPAGE

ll123
Heliman
Location: china

baby_zyklon:
What servo do you use for throttle?
I think the overspeeding should be related with the speed of servo and higher mid-throttle-curve .
thank you!

ll from china

06-29-2008 01:59 AM

Buzzin Brian
Elite Veteran
Location: College Station, Texas

I have never had to mess with the gain settings of the ATG to get it to work well for me, so I actually do not have an answer for that question. I would have to ask Curtis on Monday, but if you would like send me an email at tech@curtisyoungblood.com and I will ask him and e-mail you the answer Monday morning.

Build it, fly it, crash it. Repeat as often as needed.

06-29-2008 02:01 AM

baby_zyklon
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

ll123, I am using the 9254, but not in the digital servo mode.

Brian, its ok. I appreciate that, but there really is no need to go to such trouble. You have given me great advice. For now I will try re-setting the throttle curve and doing a perfect atv to see if that helps. Thank for all the kind advice.

06-29-2008 05:36 AM

HOMEPAGE

tadawson
Key Veteran
Location: Lewisville, TX