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Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > JR 12X vs Futaba FASST 12Z
 
 
gwk
Senior Heliman
Location: Denver, CO

Now that the 12X has been out for a little while how is everyone liking it? Has anyone used the 12Z 2.4 also and could offer a comparison? I'm trying to choose between the the 12X and the Futaba FASST 12Z and it's a tough decision. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
06-22-2008 06:51 PM
 
 
w12martin
Senior Heliman
Location: Matsuyama, Ehime, Japan

I'm also in the same dilemma... I understand the 12z has a wider software and it can be upgraded. The 12x has a magnesium case and is more ergonomic...
I don't know about the spectrum and fasst performance wich is better...
I really like both but I think I'm going with the 12x since is 200 dollars cheaper...
06-24-2008 07:20 AM
 
 
leicester
Heliman
Location: London. UK

I'm having the same dilemma. I want to keep the same switch arrangement as on my 9C and the JR I'm told may be configured to do that; but I'm not a fan of the mechanical throttle trim. The idea of having to play with the trim lever whenever I switched models, for me is annoying. If someone can tell how best to avoid the fiddle; then JR it will be.

stay safe
06-24-2008 11:42 AM
 
 
videorov
New Heliman
Location: Bradenton, Florida USA

Find a way around the thottle trim

Ive been looking at the X9303.
08-21-2008 08:45 AM
 
 
modtron
Veteran
Location: Oxford. UK

Leicester

The switch allocation on the 12X is VERY limited compared to the Futaba 12Z.
So the chance of duplicating what you have on your exixting radio is very slim, unless you have got the default set-up as normal.

modtron
Oxford UK
08-21-2008 09:01 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
mcfast
Veteran
Location: Canada

I hate mechanical throttle trim on my new X9303, I should have gotten a 10C instead, but it came out a littl too late!
08-21-2008 06:51 PM
 
 
videorov
New Heliman
Location: Bradenton, Florida USA

Why do you hate mechanical throttle trim on the X9303

How does the Futaba 10c,12z,14mZ handle it?
08-21-2008 07:50 PM
 
 
videorov
New Heliman
Location: Bradenton, Florida USA

Ive read where one guy had the 14MZ screen go blank then came up with error

Lucky he was on the ground with his Jet at the time. He has helis aswell but is shy of using it any longer. He doesn't like the idea
now of having microsoft running the system. I haven't thought about
that but I guess it does on the 14MZ like a computer.
I wonder if any of the other digital controllers have had problems
with software lockups?
08-21-2008 07:55 PM
 
 
RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

Funny,

When I started using the DX7, I hated the electronic throttle trim, even with the trim memory (I have been using radios with mechanical throttle trims for over 30 years).

All of my Nitro flights end by closing the throttle trim to kill the engine. My electric machines are set up with the motor stopped with trim down.

It seems easier with the mechanical trim, to me.

To some extent, it probably depends on what you learned with-both are perfectly serviceable.
08-21-2008 08:48 PM
 
 
tgo
Senior Heliman
Location: HK

10C, 12Z, 14MZ use digital trim, just like the elevator or other trims.

digital trims remembers different trim settings if you have many gas powered models, you use throttle cut to stop the engine running and don't need to use trim to stop the engine. Trim is use to adjust engine's idle speed only.

Quote 
How does the Futaba 10c,12z,14mZ handle it?
08-22-2008 03:44 AM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

I have used both. The 9303 and the DX7.

I did like the throttle recovery feature on the DX7 and the throttle cut was good but it wasn't the be all and end all. I also like the visual aspects of the mechanical throttle trim. Neither way was hard to use. With the DX7 I had to remember to flick the trim lever so it went back to it's normal idle position for start.

I believe it's just what you are used to and neither way is a deal breaker for me. It's just not an important thing to worry about in my books.

I can tell you the 12X is really nice to hold. Quite sturdy and almost heavy. The 12Z feels lighter and to me it feels just a little lightly built. More plastic but finished really well. The gimbals are smooth on both with light pressure springs on the futaba and heavier on the JR. The JR's screen is smaller but very clear and has a nicer background. The futaba has a blue on green background which looks a little dated in my opinion. The 12X on the outside however looks more traditional as it is the same chassis as the famous 10X.
You can get your fingers in between the switches on the JR (top) with plenty of room. The futabas switches are closer together.
The 12X 2.4 has one aerial. The 12Z has a module and an unused aerial hole unless you want to use 72 mhz.
The 12Z can be updated at home. The 12X would only be updated by JR.
That seems to be a sticking problem for a few people. I like the idea however as long as my radio works as it should I don't really want to go fluffing around with it's brains any more than I have too.
The 12Z has more functionality and programming. No doubting it. Just have to be honest to yourself as to wether you are really likley to actually need to use it or is it for bragging rights.
There are a few things about each radio exclusive to that radio. Like model match on the jr and the acceleration feature on the futaba. They both have virtual cyclic rings. Both are well featured for multiple servo setups. the 12Z can do 14 channels. (two are on/ off switches) You may like that for the very complicated models like jets etc. The 12Z has better switch assignability and condition switching....mostly used by large A/C or jets or sailplane guys maybe. Both have different ways of fixing CCPM interaction and behave well on CCPM setups.
JR is made in japan and futaba isn't. JR has satelite receivers and futaba just has one RX so fitting of the futaba is easier in the model.
JR updates all 12 channels every frame. Futaba updates 2 out of 3 frames. The third frame is a copy.
They both look cool.
JR has many choices of rx and a cool flight log to monitor your RF link with. JR has super easy programming and the rotating selector is easy and quick to use. Futaba gives you more choices.

Man I have spent so much time looking. I have read both manuals cover to cover. It is a really hard decision.
I went with the 12X. I figured I'd go with what I know. Japanese quality, DSSS, the look suited me slightly better, the feel definately better holding the 12X for me, The update ability I regret I dont have but hopefully if it never has any bugs it has everything I need and more so far, I use standard JR switching and see no reason to muck with it! although you have three choices where the flightmode switch can go etc. so better than the DSX9, no ugly aerial hole to look at like it shouldn't be there.

I'd like JR's case....futaba's programming with Jr's interface, futaba's update ability....LOL
It's a compromise.....for sure. truth is both of these radios are going to be awesome...just don't get caught up in the Ego bull$hit that some do with JR versus Futaba. Neither is really better than the other for what 97% of us do.

I'd say go hold both of them side by side and list down the absolute must haves for you. play with the programming. The decision will be easier then for you.
08-23-2008 01:36 AM
 
 
4cyclic
Senior Heliman
Location: Montreal, Can.

Helinutz, thanks for a very good review. I held the 14MZ and 12X trannies at IRCHA and the sticks were indeed smoother on the 14z (assumes it's the same on the 12z) but this is this adjustable enough on the springs on the 12x to get close or same as the feel on the 12z ?

just wondering before I make a choice.

Fly non-stop till your brain fizzles !
08-23-2008 02:04 PM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

Quote 
Helinutz, thanks for a very good review. I held the 14MZ and 12X trannies at IRCHA and the sticks were indeed smoother on the 14z (assumes it's the same on the 12z) but this is this adjustable enough on the springs on the 12x to get close or same as the feel on the 12z ?

just wondering before I make a choice.

Hi there 4cyclic. I think you probably mean "feel" rather than smoothness. I have felt the smoothness in the sticks of the 14mz, 12z, 12fgh and of course the 12X. Now all of these are quad bearing gimbal setups and all are extremely smooth. I cannot feel any bumps or grinding/sticky bits in my gimbals and neither could I feel any of that in the 12/14mz's. They both have extremely smooth gimbals.

However the feel is vastly different. Now you can get heavier springs for the futaba. I don't know about lighter springs for the JR. I prefer a heavier feel as I am a thumber and I find it better to prevent human interaction. I haven't lightened the springs right up yet but probably will a bit. Now the Futaba is very light for me and yes you can harden them up. Both sets are adjustable on the back of the radios without opening them up. The 12Z/14mz has the added bonus of a gimbal tilt adjustment for hand comfort from the front of the transmitter.

So I am just clearing up the smoothness issue in that these radios are all of top quality in the gimbals but there is a difference in the heaviness in the feel of the sticks.
The JR will not lighten up to match the futaba if you like a very light feel. You would be better with the futaba in this instance.

For those like myself that likes to feel like I am being resisted against somewhat to prevent pesky unwanted aileron/elevator movements done by myself which I felt when I hardened the 9303 I had to max allowed me to do better flips and rolls. Everyones different though.

Good luck dude. It's a bit hard to get all this info in one place where some people cannot get passed what they bought (present company excluded on this thread) and are so committed to their machine like it's one of their children!! LOL
I can look at what I like and dont like and honestly comment on it even if it means I made the wrong choice.

Thats why it is SO important to list your NEEDS first and then your WANTS (remember you only live once and never listen to those that say you don't need this and that to fly....satisfied wants in a hobby are as important as needs or why bother!!) Then you need to grab these suckers and FEEL them. Pour over the programming....list the good and bad....list the reasons why the good is the good and the bad is the bad and wether you are being logical, need something it doesn't have or just want something it doesn't have with a low chance of ever needing it.

This is my last radio for the next ten hopefully. I have had a teletrol set (oh yeah...anyone remember those!! little blue box with white linear servo's) 7 channel gold box futaba, 9chp, JR 6102, JR 9303, spektrum DX7 and a couple of others I dont remember. So I did my time and now I WANT a nice set that will future proof me for possible new upcoming projects. Right now I am heli flying but have always had jets on my mind and may dabble in large scale and twin engine stuff again in the near future.
I sold everthing and decided I couldn't fly two sets at once so I'd have one nice set.
The 14MZ had be drawbacks for me personally and frankly I couldn't justify the large extra expense for the little gain. (touch screen for me is not a bonus but a turn off) The 12X is way more than the 9303 (cost wise) but I could justify the benefits for my intended uses to myself.

To be honest I nearly bought another DX7 to tide me over till a radio came out with everything I like but realised it's just not going to be that quick so bit the bullet now.

One thing I didn't mention above it warranty and backup support. This may be very very important if you are unlucky to get a faulty one. It's a 3 year warranty on the 12X.

I seriously would have loved to fly the 12Z for a while and really get to know it which would help a lot but it's not possible so I went on "feel" in the shop.
The 12X is quite heavy..But it's a solid feel and not a bad heavy. Kinda has a nice feeling of high quality about holding it. Theres a whole lot of metal in this radio!!!The switches are positive and the trims have a solid feel to them. The eyebrow trims I thought would be a pain but they are digital so hardly move and you must deliberately reach for them so I like them. No ratchet on the throttle but it feel perfect for heli flying to me...real smooth.

good luck.
08-23-2008 04:15 PM
 
 
4cyclic
Senior Heliman
Location: Montreal, Can.

Thank you for the detailed answer on this topic. I have a DX7 with the quad bearing mod and the throttle ratchet really smoothed up. The gimbals are really smooth on it.

The 14z is probably a little too soft (for me )on the springs and if I would go for it, would tighten them up a bit. Thumbs is what I fly and just thought the 12x springs were really a bit too tight. If I can reduce the tension enough and match my Dx7, I'd be happy with the 12x

Fly non-stop till your brain fizzles !
08-23-2008 06:09 PM
 
 
RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

Helinutz,

Very nice comparison of the two radios!

By the way, where is Futaba made? I always assumed Japan (I think my old 1970's-1980's Futaba radios were made in Japan, but now am not sure).

Thank you for the information.

KBDD-Compass Field Rep.
08-27-2008 09:38 PM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

cheers.
I have found one small flaw that can be fixed but I am not sure I will bother with it although it does annoy me somewhat. Perhaps after it has a few scratches on it I will!!!

On the pitch and throttle curve I notice unless you pull the throttle stick down firm it only goes to 1 instead of 0. The top end goes to 100%
The throttle has stops to reduce throw as the throttle doesn't move as far as the cyclic as a lot of radio's do.
I would say the stop is only just holding the pot from truly going to "0" I guess I could send it back in and get it recalibrated (something the 12Z is better at as you can do this yourself) or open the back up and slightly move the stop. It would have enough play in the stop hold down screws to ajust 1 point as I can get it to go to 0 by pulling the stick down against the stop with a firmish pull.

So far the only negative I can find. Small but annoying for a radio of this caliber/price.

I have posted on another topic re the initial charging of the batteries. My factory charger supplied warmed the batteries way too much after about 6 hours. I took it off and when I got home I put my pocketlader on the battery out of the TX and am on my third cycle using a NIXX charge and then discharing to 1 volt per cell. This discharge I am doing a .9 volt per cell discharge and my final NIXX charge will be 14 hours at 250 MA. (reduction to 50 ma when almost topped but continues till 14 hours is up at that rate) After the second charge I am up to 2000 mah. I'd like to get 2200 to 2400 mah in as the batteries won't take all that but it will fully equalise and normalise them. Two cycles is enough but I am doing one more for luck.

These batteries need to be "broken in" for sure. Some have had luck with the supplied charger but I get better lifespan and performance by NIXX charging them first.
08-27-2008 10:31 PM
 
 
Gary Lkn
New Heliman
Location: New York

Helinutnz ,
I also would like to thank you for your two very extensive posts that really put a smile on my face as I just took delivery of my 12X yesterday . I was like a kid on christmas morning opening up that one gift you knew was the one you wanted . I too was tossing back and forth between the 12X and the 12FGH . Most of my club flys futaba and so did I way back when (super7), but switched to a 10X . I agree with your thought on buying top end equiptment when you get to a certain age and time in the hobby . The feel is much better with the 12X and I too put my fingers between the top switches which on a futaba is closer placed . I cant get the hang of thumbs since for 17 years have used the pinch method . I do recall the 10X having really soft gimbals almost to were you couldnt feel center and the futaba was tight , maybe they traded . My only hesitation as you explaned was the use of remote recievers with JR and one unit with futaba . Just more things to be concerned with in a crash , but you can limit the number down to one or two remotes for placement , concidering the DX7 and X9303 use only one remote . I also noticed that the throttle will sometimes end at 1 but most of the time ends on 0 so it is a fine line and not one to be concerned with . I will keep an eye on the first charge cycle as you mentioned to see if I experience the same . Are you putting your radio back in the case ( which is one nice case ) the way it was shipped or have you made adjustments to the inside to place it differntly ? Heard of guys moving the side wall panels out and standing the radio upright . The only thing with these 2.4ghz antennas is the balance point of the radio , but I will be adding an extender to regain that ( part #SPM6703 a spectrum accessory ). Thanks again for your posts which were very intuitive , you made me realize I made the right choice in my radio purchase .

Gary
08-28-2008 09:18 PM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

Cheers.

Regarding the case.
I was disappointed with the case and the method to ship it like this and would have preferred to see it encapsulated in foam for the journey. However it is still the only case I have that will fit this radio with the 2.4 aerial so I will use it. I intend to fit it with foam that will allow it to stand up so the balance of the case is useable without having to remove the foam to access the bottom of the case. (as others seem to be doing)

Interesting to hear you have the same "0" /"1" issue. Mine does the same with either 0 or 1 on the lower end of the throttle with a fine line between going either way so I guess it's on such a fine point for changing that I won't bother either. Mainly because we are almost never there!!!...LOL

I'd be opening the case for utter perfection and may make it worse so i'll leave it alone as it's not going to be an issue.
Little more QC required there however JR on a set of this level.

I will say though...Damn it's nice to hold. Maybe I am biased as I have had JR for a while.
I am using 921 receivers mainly and holding the 1221 for a large plank I may do in the future. It apparently requires at least two RX satellites to be connected to work.
I bought a 6200 as well for those A/C I dont care about namely my combat spads.

I just found that there was not enough info on this set except dotted around the net that I would try to put all my thoughts down here to maybe help any others that were deciding between the 12X/12Z and 12FGH. 14 MZ was excluded as that is out of what I was considering at the time. (since then I came across posts regarding touch screens losing sensitivity and guys cracking them by pushing hard to get them to work as well as others not getting one side or the other of the TS to work properly...the touch sceen is 140 odd pounds if you are in the UK)

It may seem I am biased towards the 12X but I am not that type of person to get anal about what I have bought. I think the 12Z has some awesome features that personally I would have liked to have had at my disposal. I guess it comes down to what is important to you and lots of features are just electronic bling in reality. It was a close race...but not for the 12FGH for me personally.
Either the 12Z or 12X would be great radios with the edge for ergonomics, feel, looks going to the JR for me and I like DSSS.


Quote 
By the way, where is Futaba made? I always assumed Japan (I think my old 1970's-1980's Futaba radios were made in Japan, but now am not sure).


The guy in Hong kong at Waigo said Taiwan. I have heard Taiwan, china or Korea but can't back that up.
08-28-2008 10:29 PM
 
 
RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

Thank you.

KBDD-Compass Field Rep.
08-28-2008 11:51 PM
 
 
stupid
Heliman
Location: CA

Futaba Made In China.Surely
08-29-2008 04:51 AM
 
 
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Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > JR 12X vs Futaba FASST 12Z
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