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Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > from 14mz to 12x worth it?

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Hi.

With my latest experiences with JR Dealers and seeing the evolution JR is having in the last year, after 23 years Futaba, I'm starting to consider moving to JR.

I currently own a 14mz FASST and honestly I love all the features, bells and whisles it gives me like touch screen, logical switches, graphs after graphs etc. I do hate the cheap plastic case but hey, you can't have it all.

If I were to move to a 12X what would I loose and what would I win?

I know that in this part of the forum im going to get 99% positive answers towards JR but please try to be as unbiased as possible.

I've seen people moving from 14mzs to DX7s just because back then futaba didn't had FASST yet. I can assure you, I personally would never ever do that because of a "hipe"

Thx

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-20-2008 01:26 AM

HOMEPAGE

stickyfox
Key Veteran
Location: Troy, NY, US

I don't think it was so much hype as being able to sell your existing radio and get a great radio with enough money left over for another model.

That, or it probably hurts one's ego to spend all that money on a radio and have some noob walk right past you and start flying while you're standing in line for a pin.

-fox

06-20-2008 01:53 PM

HOMEPAGE

Hotwings
Key Veteran
Location: Florida, Port Charlotte and West Palm Bch.

the 14mz's case is titanium, not plastic. try buying it if you don't believe me. Ron

Please cancel my clearance, I have the field in sight.

06-20-2008 01:59 PM

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

I'm sorry. Its cheap plastic with a light paint of chrome. I know, mine has started peeling off (showing black plastic casing). When you open the back you can clearly read "ABS"... last time I checked, thats plastic in my book unless there is a new titanium "abs" out there.

About the price... you're right. Thats what makes the whole thing even more sad... I was asked $900 to swap out my "outer shell". The only thing that MIGHT be titanium are the switch covers and even those are starting to have their anodizing chipping off.

Titanium my a**

Look at this pic... can you guess why I had to put those black coverings on the side?

You got it... because paint was flaking away. Plus, if you look really close, you can notice that on the left side of the picture, there is a black spot right next to the coverings... guess what that is... another paint flake...

I admit that my acid sweat contributed to this but titanium doesnt' flake. It might get dull but it doesn't flake. Plus, my flying buddy's 14mz is starting to show little black dots too. Nearly not as dramatic as on mine (because his sweat isn't as acid) but yet its happening....

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-20-2008 02:13 PM

HOMEPAGE

Hotwings
Key Veteran
Location: Florida, Port Charlotte and West Palm Bch.

when i was checking for a friend, he damaged his case by driving his car over it, Tony Stillman at radio south tole me the case was Titanium, my case has no flakes and i got one of the first available. Ron

Please cancel my clearance, I have the field in sight.

06-20-2008 04:03 PM

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Tony said that because in the futaba parts list appears "titanium case front" etc etc. I contacted him too and after getting a similar huge quote, I asked why and he said that it PROBABLY was because the parts were titanium. I'm pretty sure that what futaba ment by "titanium case" was "titanium color painted plastic case"

Since your friend ran over a 14mz, did you guys look at the broken case?

Tony

PS - Since you have a 14mz, do this... open the sliding door where the CF card inserts, turn the radio upside down and look at the case wall... black with a thin outside and inside coat of crome paint thats not titanium I tell ya.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-20-2008 04:07 PM

HOMEPAGE

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

The 12 X is magnesium,as is the 10X that they introduced 10 years ago.

06-20-2008 04:09 PM

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Yes, I'm aware of that. Thats one positive point towards the 12x... what about the rest? I already know I would loose the color touchscreen and the MP3 Player (not that I use it that much anyway) but what about custom command voices? programming? etc?

Anyone has a pdf manual of the 12x somewhere?

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-20-2008 04:14 PM

HOMEPAGE

RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

Tony,

I believe the 14MZ has electronic swashplate phasing. The 12X does not, although there is a menu for mixing aileron to elevator to accomplish pretty much the same thing (I have not used them yet).

I do not own a 14MZ, so I am speculating. The silver coating is probably plating (process is called "metalizing" if memory serves). Any kind of oil is detrimental to this type plating over plastic, over time.

Sweat (as you pointed out), or even the oil from one's fingers, can damage it over time.

I recently moved from a 10X to a 12X and thought I would miss the touch screen. I did initially, but am now getting used to the "rolling selector". It is somewhat quicker.

This is an interesting thread. I am curious to see what other responses you get.

Link to Horizon site with manual:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...?ProdID=JRP1200

Good luck to you sir, whatever you decide.

06-20-2008 04:46 PM

Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

Tony;

Of course the Futaba TX cases are titanium colored plastic. I laugh every time someone claims otherwise. Download the 12X manual. You get a better case and good sticks BUT you will miss a great deal of the programability of the Futaba. The 12X is also not s/w upgradeable (which includes bug fixes). Futaba has done a great overall job of fixing s/w bugs and adding new features.

The Futaba CCPM is perfect as far as I can tell. Of particular note is the lack of a linkage compensation screen on the 12X. Also, the 12X only has 8 point curves. I have felt up a 12X but not programmed a curve to find out what the limitations are. I use the Futaba SPLINE curves for everything.

I think you would be trading off capability for a nice case. How much does the flaking case bother you. Take it apart and spray it another color ! My favorite color is Citizen-Ship red:

http://www.rchalloffame.org/Manufac...-1006-full.html

06-20-2008 05:05 PM

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Quote
Take it apart and spray it another color !

Easier said than done. The 14mz was build like a mousetrap. One wrong move and you'll be chasing a sping holder for 3 hours (ask me how I know). Anyway. Back and top parts are easy. Its the front part thats a nightmare to remove.

I've been checking the 12x manual and... it doesn't have a throttle cut switch? you have to use throttle mechanical trim?

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-20-2008 05:33 PM

HOMEPAGE

RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

I believe you do have to use the trim. Hopefully, others who know more will chime in.

I like the mechanical throttle trim (I suspect I am in the minority here). I have a DX7 with an electronic throttle trim with memory, but I still like the old-scholl mechanical trim (I have been flying R/C helicopters since 1976, with on long break).

I think you will find that the 12X does have pretty good software (firmware?) for CCPM. I do not know if it is as extensive as Futaba's, but you can modify the servo speed to correct CCPM issues and, if memory serves, tweak the servo movement (ATV) to work out any remaining interactions.

I apologize, I have read the manual, but not explored all the intricacies yet.

If you do make the move from a 14Mz, I would be very interested in your opinion of the two systems.

06-20-2008 05:58 PM

Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

I read the manual and you are correct, ATV, speed, CCPM screen. Futaba has an additional screen which compensates for mechanical linkage effects such as angles of control links.

06-20-2008 06:17 PM

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

and speed compensation if you happen to use 120ccpm to eliminate swash dancing.

One of my friends just wear out two pots of his 14mz so he's sending it in for repair and in the heat of the moment (he crashed 2 birds before realising it were the pots wearing out) he's ordering a 12x. I'm going to wait until he gets his and play a little with it to "feel the feel"

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-20-2008 07:28 PM

HOMEPAGE

seattle_helo
Key Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

Tony, the 12X does have a throttle hold switch. I use it all the time with my electrics.

I have handled a 14MZ and gone into the menus a bit. I do not know the radio very well. The main feature the 14MZ has that I think would be genuinely useful is the custom command voices. I would love to have similar functionality.

One of the big points with the 12X (and most JR gear) is something not often mentioned: it's made in Japan. The quality, fit and finish of the 12X and R1221 RX is outstanding and it does indeed provide me piece of mind knowing that the devices are physically well made in a country world renowned for its high quality manufacturing.

nick

06-20-2008 11:39 PM

HOMEPAGE

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

I was refereing to the Cut switch, not the hold switch.

Anyway, I browsed through the 12x radio and it has alot of similar features to the 14mz. I suppose one could emulate a logic switch with a mix or something. I'm keeping an open mind here so I will wait for my friends 12x to arrive and check it out personally.

Btw, I read in the manual that the 12ch reciever has to have a minimum of two external antennas connected? Is this correct?

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-21-2008 01:01 AM

HOMEPAGE

TheSteve
Heliman
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

My R1221 works fine with only a single satellite receiver connected.

06-21-2008 01:38 AM

Fred I
Senior Heliman
Location: Irvine, CA

what's the difference between a throttle cut switch and a throttle hold switch?

06-21-2008 06:55 AM

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Throttle hold will put your engine at idle so you can perform an autorotation. Throttle cut kills your engine if you hit the switch have your stick lower than 25% (at the end of the flight for example)

On competition autos, the engine must be off so one sets up a logical switch. you activate that switch and next time you hit throttle hold (to perform an auto) it will kill the engine as requested per rules.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-21-2008 10:51 AM

HOMEPAGE

Qrrambero
Veteran
Location: San Francisco / Bay Area

Well, I am not in competition and I do not might about the throttle Cut.
I have seen crashes that when they want to hit the throttle cut is too late...The same with me, when I hit the throttle hold.
One reason I like JR radios are shown in this picture.
Just see the two receivers and check the number of antennas. Do I have to explain?

06-21-2008 11:32 PM

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Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > from 14mz to 12x worth it?

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