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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Heli jumping up and down

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

I have tried search and I think this was discussed before but I can't find it.

While spooling up just before or at lift off the heli starts to do a pogo up and down. At first I thought it was interference or a broken wire to my IR sensor but it hasn't gone away. I vaguely remember a discussion that this may be a slipping auto rotation bearing. Can someone confirm?

I also have another question:

My recoil sticks to where I have to play with it to get it back in. If I take it apart and clean it it works fine for 25 or so pulls and then starts sticking. Should it be lubricated and with what?

Ace
What could be more fun?

06-16-2008 09:31 PM

Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

Does it do it on a hard surface? Does it do it on grass?

Your spring has sprung, just get a new one..If you lube it, it gets dirty, and cause more problems

Bill

06-16-2008 09:35 PM

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

I am on pavement Bill so I would say it is hard. It pogos about 2 inches so I don't dare to take off.

Can you buy just the spring or should I get a new recoil? It is a real pain getting that coil wound up.

Ace
What could be more fun?

06-16-2008 09:41 PM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

If it was your 1-way the engine would be screaming then catching - I've had that happen on a Raptor though it would let go when I was coming down, load off the bearing. Turned out to be dirt in the bearing. I doubt it's that.

If this is electrical it'd have to hit all three servos at the same time. Last year I experienced the exact same thing with a GSR that would violently jump 2"-3" in a hover. It was the AP2000i taking a static discharge hit from the belt. Obviously the Predator doesn't have a belt but I'd suspect your electronics somewhere. Can you bypass the pilot assist system and try flying with the servos directly plugged into the RX? That would eliminate one of the variables.

...yep...

06-16-2008 09:56 PM

Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

You can buy the whole thing cheap I'm sure. Every time I tried doing the spring, I could never get it as tight as the factory, so I just buy one.
I'm sure Daves motors has one... His prices are very reasonable..

On the other problem, check where your stick is when it does it.. check the degs at that point..Its a matter of being at the operating rpm at a certain deg..I run a lot of negative to make sure its at a higher rpm before it gets around 1 deg...

BTW, try it on grass first, if it doesn't do it , then try what I said above.. At least this will let you know its mechanical..If you have a lot of slack between the blades, and servos, it will help induce this problem..

Bill

06-16-2008 10:03 PM

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Get OFF the pavement!

Your starter coil being stuck is due to flying off pavement. You kick up dirt and it gets into your starter, bearings, even worse the motor if you don't have a filter on it and ruin things. Crash on pavement and it will hurt so bad you wouldn't want to rebuild it. If it ain't broke, its scratched to hell and back.

Do yourself a favor and STOP flying from the pavement. I was just telling this to a Bergen guy on the freak site. That is #1.

#2, disassemble the starter and clean it all out and get rid of the grit in it. I believe there is friction there from grit in it, not a spring gone bad as those springs last forever, I've never had one go back in over 2300 flights now. Rope or plastic ring may break, but the rest is bulletproof. If you take it apart, there is finness on how you reassemble it. Some folks may get frustrated and throw it away when they can't get it back together.

As far as the jumping thing, are you still using 72Mhz FM with this? When I flew it for you here it was glitching and jumping in the sky, remember? If you haven't fixed that since then its probably coming around to haunt you. I would recommend at least PCM.

Good luck Ace!

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

06-17-2008 02:25 AM

Jr.fling-winger
Heliman
Location: Canada

Quote
If this is electrical it'd have to hit all three servos at the same time. Last year I experienced the exact same thing with a GSR that would violently jump 2"-3" in a hover. It was the AP2000i taking a static discharge hit from the belt.

Had this exact problem with my GSR!! the glich counter on the AP2000 would hit its max count(I think it was 99) within seconds of spooling up and just getting into a hover - Resolved by removing the AP2000!! but I've also heard that simply bonding/grounding the carbon boom directly to the frame fixes it.

Ironically, months before I also had similar jumping incident with the GSR, but it was jumping at much slower rate - this turned out to be the autorotation bearing - resolved simply by replacing the bearing.

Mark

06-17-2008 02:09 PM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

We (not my GSR) resolved the issue by putting some silicone lubricant on the belt, though grounding the boom is probably the best/correct way.

...yep...

06-17-2008 02:11 PM

Jr.fling-winger
Heliman
Location: Canada

Quote
We (not my GSR) resolved the issue by putting some silicone lubricant on the belt, though grounding the boom is probably the best/correct way.

Oh, thats right - I heard that also works & the spray is also a good way of keeping the belt conditioned.

06-17-2008 02:25 PM

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote
As far as the jumping thing, are you still using 72Mhz FM with this? When I flew it for you here it was glitching and jumping in the sky, remember? If you haven't fixed that since then its probably coming around to haunt you. I would recommend at least PCM.

Raja, this is my second season on PCM. I gave up the FS8 and went to the APi so I could use PCM. The problem is nothing like the hits that you experienced when you flew it and it is a recent problem. The heli has many smooth flights since you flew it.

I have cleaned the recoil three time and reassembled it as much as a pain that it is and it works fine for about 25 pulls and then starts to stick. If Bill is not correct that the spring is sprung it may be a lack of lubricant. Lubing it before assembly is going to make the assembly even more difficult. I may drill a hole in the case for adding lube afterwords just to see if it is a lube problem. The thing is a Stanley steel tape doesn't have the spring lubed.

Ace
What could be more fun?

06-17-2008 05:54 PM

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Interesting

Well I never had to lube my starter before. Try to clean it up and stop flying over pavement and see if it lasts longer than 25 flights, that would be my best advice.

I'm not familiar with the APi system but it sounds like some other folks had issues with it causing the glitches. Could you try to unplug it for now and fly it pilot only and see if it changes anything? This way if it doesn't jump any more, you'll know its not your receiver or servos.

When are you guys going to have a funfly in your area? Anything planned for this summer?

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

06-17-2008 06:15 PM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

good point here -> can you look at the AP2Ki and see if it's registering hits?

...yep...

06-17-2008 06:37 PM

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote
can you look at the AP2Ki and see if it's registering hits?

I do that on a regular basis anyway. Clitch count zip.

I think I am going to put the other APi on that I have on the other machine just to see if there is a difference. I just don't have any time this year. I know it's a problem.

Ace
What could be more fun?

06-18-2008 12:47 AM

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Huh?

Quote
I just don't have any time this year.

What does that mean? If you're in this hobby you have time for it. If not then you're not in it. If you're on the PC here talking all the time, take some of this talk time and turn it into mechanic time and hopefully flight time!!

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

06-18-2008 03:29 AM

shuttlepilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Mullins, South Carolina

On the pullstart. When I went up to the local lawnmower shop for a new pull cord, the owner also told me that he could get a new starter assembly for the G26 for $26.00. I don't think that you should have to use lube on the starter....IMHO it attracts more grit than it resolves problems.

Gas is Great
QWW Field Rep

06-18-2008 03:40 AM

Dimitris76
Heliman
Location: Borås, Sweden

The mechanic at my local garden equipment shop specifically suggested only a little graphite on the between the spring and the drum. Absolutely NO grease/oil at any other point and definately not on the rope!

06-18-2008 08:38 AM

GREYEAGLE
Veteran
Location: Sioux City IA

Did you finish jumping up and down on it ??

I've never done it but seen a plane walked once !

It was a Byron F-16 and what a dance it was !!!

GREYEAGLE

06-20-2008 02:36 AM

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

No Grey,

I have learned through the years in this hobby that you have to dedicate a considerable amount of time to it to be safe. I find that if you work on something piece meal you forget things. Twice I survived a critical loose screw with my helis because I forgot to tighten a screw or use loctite. The problem is ten fold with a heli and I am sure all of you can site people that forgot things on assemblies that ended up as a disaster at the field. It is not as much a problem with a car or a boat but planks and heli do not have a good survival rate when it comes to forgetfulness.

When I have uninterupted time I will get to it.

Ace
What could be more fun?

06-20-2008 06:01 PM

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Update:

I found the problems.
Problem one, hippity hop:
Definitely the APi. When I opened up the case I found two broken ears and all the plastic chaffed with the plastic dust just like before. Is anyone else experiencing these ears breaking off? I temporarily packed the case with medical grade volara foam and the hippity hop is gone.

Problem two, recoil:
I took the recoil off my other machine and discovered the discrepancy. The large washer was missing and the small one on the right was used. Goes back to what I had said before, this hobby demands 100% attention to detail. I replaced the broken cord in the winter time with a rope I found at HD. Not the right cord (too big)but I got it to work anyway. It is 1/2 wrap shorter then original. This took a while to find and the recoil was disassembled while I search. When I put it back together I lost track of the large washer and thought the small one was the right one but the large one makes it work.

Ace
What could be more fun?

06-21-2008 03:48 PM

xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote
When I opened up the case I found two broken ears and all the plastic chaffed with the plastic dust just like before.

Well,,, if you had your engine tuned right,

and not vibrating things to death, then maybe this could have been avoided,,, Good luck with your vibrating machine!!! When you get tired of things breaking and comming apart,, Go back and read the gas tunning thread, and do it like you were told,, then maybe you will see that it works,,,

XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

06-21-2008 04:13 PM

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