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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > If this happened, do I need to clean the carb????
 
 
hcuellart
Heliman
Location: South Padre Island, TX

OK guys, I was flying my Spectra with a regular 230 PUH and at about 3 minutes hovering (I'm testing the governor...), the engine loses power and when I land, the engine is extremely hot... Not sizzling hot, but much hotter than normal anyways. I let it cool down and thought that the engine might be running lean, it was 1.5 turns open on H needle and 1 3/8 on L one. But upon trying to start it, I would not start again, I checked the spark plug and is giving a spark, when I took off the air cleaner I saw some black dust residue which I think it came off from the air filter as it was new (DDM Racing).

Did I needed to clean the filter before using it for the first time? Or could the black residue be from the piston? I have not taken off the carb yet to inspect the piston... I am assuming that the engine would not start because the carb might be obstructed with this residue...
One more question, if you prime the carb a lot, does the gas enter the cylinder? One thing I saw was that even though I primed and primed the carb, the spark plug never seemed wet... I am assuming the carb is blocked and that is why it will not start.

Am I on the right track? What is the best way to know if my carb is blocked? Or should I just disassemble it? I have never done this is this difficult?

Well any help would much be appreciated.
Best regards,
Homero
06-08-2008 02:14 AM
 
 
airborne r/c
Senior Heliman
Location: Woodward, Okla - Stationed in Korea

There is a good chance your on the right track. Carbs are very easy to rebuild and clean up. I use a soft brissle tooth brush to clean mine. When you pull it apart just pay attention to the way the spring is setting. Most taper down on one side. I also count the number of threads on all the screws I pull out so I can get them back in the same as they were. You could also have a air leak around the head or back plate causing it to run lean when it does start or a loss of compression preventing it from starting. Start off with checking your hard ware it's usally the easer of the two.

Take offs are Optional, Landings are Mandatory
06-08-2008 02:26 AM
 
 
hcuellart
Heliman
Location: South Padre Island, TX

Metal carb adapter...

Thanks airborne r/c! I indeed forgot to add that this was also the first flight of the metal carb block, I changed that too as it was leaning on me before...
I used the plastic gaskets that came with the adapter, this is OK right? Or should I have only used the paper ones that were there before???
This might be the cause too...

Thanks again!!
06-08-2008 03:28 AM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
if you prime the carb a lot, does the gas enter the cylinder?

No,, you can pump it all you want,, all it does, is take the air out of the line and carb,,

Quote 
I am assuming the carb is blocked and that is why it will not start.

Could be the screen inside the carb,, Once you take it apart, is is on the inlet side, just inside the carb,, I could be blocked with what will look like cotton stuff,, I have had this happen before,,

Remember,, the Spectra,, hovers on the H needle,, not the L needle,, when doing adjustment while in hover,, make them to the H needle,,


Quote 
I used the plastic gaskets that came with the adapter, this is OK

Yep,, on both sides,,, there should have been two gaskets,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-08-2008 03:34 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
I indeed forgot to add that this was also the first flight of the metal carb block, I changed that too as it was leaning on me before...

Did you line up the hole at the bottom of the intake with the hole on the gasket???

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-08-2008 03:36 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Also, I have (unfortunately) run into an issue when putting the metal adapter on where the bolts were too long so when you tighten down the bolts it deforms the rear white teflon gasket causing an air leak. Make dang sure the bolts aren't too long.

...yep...
06-08-2008 04:36 PM
 
 
hcuellart
Heliman
Location: South Padre Island, TX

Quote 
Did you line up the hole at the bottom of the intake with the hole on the gasket???
Yes they are lined up.
Quote 
Also, I have (unfortunately) run into an issue when putting the metal adapter on where the bolts were too long so when you tighten down the bolts it deforms the rear white teflon gasket causing an air leak. Make dang sure the bolts aren't too long.
That was one of my concerns too, how tight is too tight for those gaskets??? I did tighten them up pretty hard and now I think that they might've deformed...

What do you guys think on the tightness issue??

Well, thanks guys and if there is something else I might look at I would greatly appreciate your inputs.

Regards!!
Homero
06-08-2008 06:18 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

When i had mine off it looked like a slight curl on one corner..but it flew like that before (not for long for other reasons)..so I put it back and cranked it home..will try to try it tomorrow.

My engineering finess revolves around 10lb hammers

pgk
06-08-2008 06:21 PM
 
 
hcuellart
Heliman
Location: South Padre Island, TX

Still the engine will not fire... Should I sell my Spectra???

I have had it... I did not find my problem and feel frustrated...
The engine just won't start. I have tried to reset the needles to 1 1/2 on both needles and a new spark plug, checked the carb, replaced the metal carb manifold for the original plastic one and nothing.

I have a Hanson modified 260 new in box...

I have two options:
1) Sell my Spectra with both motors and let the new owner find out what is happening with the original 230PUH...
2) Keep my Spectra and install the Hanson engine.

The thing to consider is that I do not have a lot of time to be fiddling around with engines. That is why I have only electrics on the first place (I sold everything glow and gas...), right now my Swift 620 is flying like a dream and I don't have to spend not even 1/4 of the time I have spent on this Spectra...

Are gassers just like this???

I bought the Spectra thinking I would have a great time flying it but I has only been headaches...

So if anyone is interested just PM me and we might arrange something.
In the meantime I am open to resolve the problem...

Thanks for your help guys!!
Regards,
Homero
06-17-2008 12:08 AM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Did you take the carb apart to see it the screen inside was blocked?? Also it could be you diaphragm not pumping any fuel in there,, try pouring a small amount of gas into the carb, then try to start it, if it hits, then you will know there is a blockage somewhere...If your getting spark, but no fire, then something is wrong with the carb, can you use the carb that came with the Hanson engine to see if it will run that way?? Don't give up, I know it can be frustrating when you have problems,, But think how much fun you will have once you get it figured out,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-17-2008 12:21 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Toadster25
Veteran
Location: Iowa

Make sure your getting spark. Do you have the RF shield on the plug wire? Some people have problems with that grounding out the spark. After reading your first post on this topic it doesn't sound like this is your problem but might want to double check?
06-17-2008 04:05 AM
 
 
hcuellart
Heliman
Location: South Padre Island, TX

Yes checked the carb...

Hi John, yes I checked the carb, I opened it and it looked as clean as new... I think I will install the Hanson and start from there... I bought it so later I would change it, but this is getting me quite frustrated...

Toadster, yes I do have the grounding mesh for the spark plug cable...

Thanks for the help guys!!

I will see if with a little gas directly in the engine it at least tries to start...
06-17-2008 11:30 PM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
I will see if with a little gas directly in the engine it at least tries to start...

Make sure it is your mixed fuel that you use,, and if it does hit, and die, then your diaphram is bad, takes about 10 minutes to replace,, just make sure you pay attition to how it comes out, there is a right and wrong side to how it goes in,,, Keep us informed on how things are going,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-18-2008 01:09 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
shawmcky
Senior Heliman
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

Hot Heli.

I had a similar problem with my Heli on a hot day.it sounded like fuel starvation.when i checked it out the primer bulb was empty.This carb is new and i have new lines and an inline clear fuel filter.I too tried to richen it up by unscrewing the low needle to 1 & half turns and it would not start.Then i turned the needle in to 3/4 cranked the engine by pullstart whilst blocking carb inlet.Then i found the engine would start ok and the primer bulb was full again an fuel was returning to tank as normal.I dont know if this is a heat related problem causing this but the heli flew fine after.one thing i do know is that if the low needle is rich when this occurs it will not start.3/4 does it but reset after before flight.Hope this helps.
06-18-2008 04:46 PM
 
 
hcuellart
Heliman
Location: South Padre Island, TX

Quote 
I had a similar problem with my Heli on a hot day
This could be it, I was flying on a 100+ degree day... I might check that.
Thanks shawmcky!

Though, I might be scared on leaning too much the engine, but thia might do the trick.
Question:
So if I fly on a hot place should the needles be leaner than the rest. I do fly a lot on 90-100 degree days right now on summer...
06-19-2008 06:22 AM
 
 
shawmcky
Senior Heliman
Location: Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

Hot Heli.

I would not fly with the needles excessivly lean,try and keep the needles as close to recommended as possible.I think that heat from the engine causes the carb to starve of fuel,this has happened to me exactly as you described on numerous occasions,loss of power(sounds like the engine is getting tight).Each time i have noticed the primer bulb is either half full or empty and the return pipe is usually dry.I was thinking of making a heat shield to go betweem carb and engine.If your plug looks dry close the low needle as i said but return it to the 1 to 11/2 after it restarts.squirting a bit of fuel in the intake with the throttle open BUT CLOSING IT BEFORE you try to restart.I will get around to making a heat shield that fits between the inlet manifold and engine and see if it makes a difference.
06-19-2008 09:28 AM
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > If this happened, do I need to clean the carb????
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