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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > After the build..

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote
I'm downright paranoid now which it why I keep raising these questions.

If that is the case you are unsafe. You have to be comfortable with what you are doing. Know your proceedures and follow them. Do dads don't keep you safe.

Ace
What could be more fun?

05-15-2008 10:11 PM

pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

<<If that is the case you are unsafe. >>

Wow, that's gotta be a first - being called unsafe for wanting to discuss safety issues and be sure that I've covered every eventuality and have duplicate cut-off systems!

Excuse me while I go sow my sides back together

pgk

05-15-2008 11:28 PM

Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

You’ve just been formally introduced too Ace

05-15-2008 11:34 PM

HOMEPAGE

pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

<<You’ve just been formally introduced too Ace

>>

Traditionally that means I can now use his first name.

pgk

05-16-2008 12:01 AM

bosshoss
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

LOL

Quote
<<You’ve just been formally introduced too Ace>> Traditionally that means I can now use his first name.

I am more afraid of people who DONT ask questions, or those that answer them all day from their keyboard.

PG , I always eyeball my carb throats. Don;t be tempted to open the carb throat more than 1mm from closed for the first start. You can always open it more with trim for idle after the first farts.

No worries, just use caution. Have a buddy with you , ready to kill the engine or assist you. Keep the TX away from clutter during start-up.

Wanna hover??? Buy a helicopter.

05-16-2008 12:13 PM

HOMEPAGE

pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Bosshoss thanks,

Quote
<< am more afraid of people who DONT ask questions, or those that answer them all day from their keyboard.>>

..these the same guys who know all the asnwers and have beautifully sharp photos of pristine helis posed neatly next to a flowering shrub on a trimmed lawn?

Quote
Have a buddy with you , ready to kill the engine or assist you. Keep the TX away from clutter during start-up.

So that's ambulance and blood donor on stand-by.. I was looking for a spare Orphan to proxy the first start but they're in short supply this week

Once the electronics and other checks are finished I'll post a check-list for folk to pick at..

pgk

05-16-2008 12:28 PM

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote
being called unsafe for wanting to discuss safety issues and be sure that I've covered every eventuality and have duplicate cut-off systems!

I was refering to the Parnoid part. Regardless of how many questions you ask if you are afraid of what you are doing you stand a better chance of getting hurt than if you are comfortable with what you are doing. Just because you ask the questions doesn't mean you will get the right answers.

Sorry for the confusion.

Ace
What could be more fun?

05-16-2008 05:44 PM

pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Quote
Sorry for the confusion

OK, let's settle for cautious instead of reckless and shake hands

pgk

05-16-2008 06:09 PM

pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

State of Play

Maiden tomorrow.
I've gone through the mechanics, reviewed the build manual and checked the bird over - tightend everything that can be. I found one servo screw absent and one ball-link without it's locknut.
I note that the flybar cage can twist a little however well tightened. Looks like that's going to have to be an ally upgrade at some point..looks like a design weakness there.

I've gone through the ccpm. With 0 midstick it hs a pitch range of +/-11 deg with swash CCPM mix of 50%. I had to increase swash mix to 65% both for aileron and elevator to get 6 deg on each - seems a reasonable starting point?

My pitch gauge wasn't big enogh for these blade soa quick trip to LHS.. don't like the guy there (smarmy is the word). New in packet gauge and when i check it it's under-reading by 1/2 deg - at his prices!! I could have made a more accurate one out of cardboard!!

I've programmed just a gentle idle down curve to start with -2, -1, +1, +6, +11 and a really gentle throttle for first fire-up : 0, 25, 35, 55, 100.

Visual inspection of the butterfly and throttle hold set at 18% gives me about 1mm open. Throttle cut programmed and checked visually for function. Failsafe set to cut throttle and tested visully.

I will leave the range check as part of pre-flight tomorrow

I'm using low ash mineral oil at 25:1 - I know most of you think that's too strong but the Zenoah manual recommends 25 - 40 :1 as a range and the oil is rated for upto 50:1. It's a start.

I'll just fill 1/4 tank to start so if there are any untoward issues I don't have a full one!

I've reviewed Rbort's start-up vid.

My toolbox now contains a fire extinguisher.

Intention is just to start it up, idle for a couple of minutes, shut it down and check it over again. If no probs then 10 mins of hover recheck then repeat and tach.

After that make tx adjustments and an idle-up curve.

Jump in if I've forgot anything or any dumb moves here.

pgk

05-17-2008 10:52 PM

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote
My toolbox now contains a fire extinguisher.

CO2??? Other types may damage your engine. CO2 is quite expensive.

Ace
What could be more fun?

05-17-2008 11:19 PM

Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Just one thing left to do and that is to pray the English weather doesn’t let you down

Good luck with the maiden.

05-17-2008 11:30 PM

HOMEPAGE

pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

It's a cheap powder extinguisher. I'm not planning on using it but this is a public flying area, tends to be quiet but there's always the chance of a passing cretin.

Reality is that if a tank of petrol(gas) did go up then an extinguisher will be too late/slow anyway. But if there's another cause of fire.. rags and the like near the pits-kit.. It's a cheap enough insurance and can stay in the car at other times.

pgk

05-17-2008 11:30 PM

pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Quote
Just one thing left to do and that is to pray the English weather doesn’t let you down Good luck with the maiden.

Thanks,

Forcast dry, 12mph gusting to 28mph. I've flown in stuff like that.. it's sadly typical..

pgk

05-17-2008 11:33 PM

zone8
Senior Heliman
Location: Ireland

I wouldn't even start the engine with those curves. Pitch: -2 is not enough in case you start flying around with 28mph wind, it should be -4. Why +1 at center stick. +11 might be ok yet unnecessary. Throttle: can't start with 0 (carb closed?) it should be 15-20. Also you will be hovering at ~70 which is way too much. Also you don't need 100 at full throttle. A generic gasser throttle curve is 15 20 35 45 60/65.

05-17-2008 11:47 PM

bosshoss
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

Good Luck on the maiden shakeout.

Wanna hover??? Buy a helicopter.

05-17-2008 11:57 PM

HOMEPAGE

Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

I would have thought with those curves he would be hovering about 40 to 45, my first point on the throttle curve starts at 00 on all three gassers.

05-17-2008 11:58 PM

HOMEPAGE

pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Quote

I post these questions for this sorta reason.

My thought process was that I just want to fire it up and get the feel of it running. I'm not even intending to take-off for the first 2 starts and if I do it'll be low hover.

I'm also only ex electric, no previous IC so if reflex does cause me to close throttle then I'd like it to cut and dump without a large negative pitch. As stated I'm cautious and there's always the chance of a mechanical failure on a maiden despite all the pre-flight checks.

But I do accept your points and if the preliminaries go OK then it's no biggie to adjust the tx

As to <<hovering at ~70 >> if that's 70% stick then that's fine. If your suggesting 70% throttle then I don't see it.. I'm assuming it'll hover at 6deg and 55% throttle??

pgk

05-18-2008 12:09 AM

zone8
Senior Heliman
Location: Ireland

I was thinking that if your last two throttle points are 55 and 100, since I assume that you will be hovering at 3/4 stick, the carb will be like 70% open which in my opinion will give you a hell of headspeed.

-2 pitch will not save the heli if you reflex down. Better keep a finger on throttle hold and land safely. One big mistake that I did when coming from electric to gassers, was hovering/testing at 2 feet height in my small garden thinking that it was safe, it was not.

05-18-2008 12:44 AM

blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi pgkevet

best of luck on the maiden , keep us posted , bob

RR Master wannabe

05-18-2008 03:01 AM

TooBizzy
Senior Heliman
Location: Georgetown, Ohio USA

Quote
I'm assuming it'll hover at 6deg and 55% throttle??

My Predator hovers at about 6° pitch and under 30% throttle opening. 55% is too much. 50-60% is normal for most nitro birds at hover. Gassers are completely different. If you have a tach or access to one, really thats the only way to get the curves right. Believe it or not, just 3 points on the throttle curve has a big affect on HS on a gasser. You'll want ~1600 HS for a nice stable hover.

Keep us posted and best of luck on the Maiden!

P-Gasser Se, Raptor 50 Se Hyper, Raptor 30v2, Trex450se, 3dx450...

05-18-2008 03:24 PM

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > After the build..

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