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Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > After the build..
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi
something else i forgot to mention , and i mention it because i have done it myself once or twice , make sure all the servo arm screws are in and tight , it is easy to forget that an arm is just popped on , bob

reading this post reminded me
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t420480p1/

RR Master wannabe
05-14-2008 03:04 PM
 
 
TooBizzy
Senior Heliman
Location: Georgetown, Ohio USA

<<Try the clamp and see how long it takes to shut down>>

<<Was that being cryptic? Because if it is a long time then please tell me so I don't bother. I'm trying to be as responsible and safe here as possible.>>

You ever shut off a nitro using a fuel line clamp? My nitro's will run about 10 seconds before shutting down. And always with a slight increase in rpm right before it shuts down. Probably a gasser will run even longer, maybe even at a higher rpm as it leans out? So I think it would not be such a good idea to use this method for emergencies.

P-Gasser Se, Raptor 50 Se Hyper, Raptor 30v2, Trex450se, 3dx450...
05-14-2008 04:54 PM
 
 
helicenter
Senior Heliman
Location: Winter Haven Fl.

clamp

The reason I said to try it is because it will seem like forever for the engine to stop, and thats not good. a ground kill switch or just choke it works fine.

Doug
05-14-2008 05:35 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

<<You ever shut off a nitro using a fuel line clamp?>>

Nope, never used nitro - why I asked!

<<I put a zip-tie on all my fuel line connections>>

I haven't and the reason is that my work also involves some compressed air lines and the thinner plastic one's always leak if you try to use twited wire or small screw-type hose-clips to fix dud connections. Two-sided metal crimp fittings or special plastic tube that's pulled up tight is the only log-term solution. Cable ties always have that flat at the junction.. and if the tube will soften as you say then it'd likely weaken more at the cable tie.

If I notice a problem then I'll source some of the crimps.


But keep the thoughts coming .. it all good stuff!

pgk
05-14-2008 05:56 PM
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi
Dubro makes fuel line clips , in three sizes , can't remember what size i am using off the top of my head
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...p?&I=LXFRM0&P=7
i have been running them and they are OK , LHS carries them , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-14-2008 09:12 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Remote Kill Switch

So which ? Opto coupled or Z-kill? Z-kill looks easier to wire (or just better documented/simpler?).. could add a slide switch so have non tx kill on-board..

I like to be paranoid.. dog runs away with tx, kick it out of reach in panic, jammed choke... that sorta thing..

If adding own switch then what sorta rating comes through the kill wire?

pgk
05-15-2008 11:47 AM
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi
i have a remote kill on mine , it is a normally closed relay , so if power is lost it closes and kills the engine , i would call Z-kill and ask if their switch is normally open or closed , i see from their site it is a relay , i am guessing it is NC

the setup i am running is a http://www.dimensionengineering.com/PicoSwitch.htm
and i had to pull the shrink wrap and cut a trace and solder a small jumper as it is normally open as it comes , this was pretty easy , but i am handy with a soldering iron , so if you are sqeamish it might be easier to call around and find a remote that comes default normally closed , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-15-2008 12:19 PM
 
 
bosshoss
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

I use the Smart-Fly Opti-kill, most of the time.


It is Opto-isolated from the receiver power source. A lite-fibre is the only connection between reveiver and ignition. No common ground connection, or signal connection to transfer interference.

The Opto kill transmitter plugs into the transmitter channel you will use. The light fibre goes to a small receiver module the size of a stamp. It is powered by the ignition battery or other power source ( i use a 830mah 2 cell lipo. ) It supplies power to whatever device you want when it receives light from the light transmitter.

I use a small omron relay for magnetos...and straight to the ignition for basttery powered ignitions...(battery size adjusted for the motor size...830 2s for 26cc, 1320 3s for 50cc, 2100 2s for 100 and up.)

No direct connection ....the other units out there use your reciever battery anda common ground....not good for interference rejection.

GAS engines require an extreme amount of respect, It seems some of that is lost with the easy availability of gassers. A whole different level of respect is warranted.

Wanna hover??? Buy a helicopter.
05-15-2008 01:15 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Quote 
do not start and run it without main blades

Well every one has there own way of doing things and reasons why, but personally I never fit the blades until the engines had its first start, if your new to gassers and it goes into a fast idle or hot start what would you do, panic hold on to the head for dear life possibly getting clouted by the blades while you are franticly working out the best way to stop the engine whilst the clutch is burning out nicely.

If you start up without main or tail blades on you can let go of the head and hold the skids so you don’t damage the clutch and then choke the engine or hit the kill switch without having to worry about those blades hurting you.

Believe me when you have to hold on to those blades for dear life you tend to have a memory loos has to what you should be doing next and the clutch is history by the time you’ve cut the engine.
05-15-2008 02:23 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi fixit

i have had a hot start while holding the head , and killed the machine by choking the carb , i was glad i had a grip on the head when this happened , i would not want to be next to the machine with the head spinning , blades or not , especially in a hot start condition

and i will admit the clutch was toast , but better the clutch than me , the key point in all of this is to have a firm grip on the head , every time you start the engine

a lot of setting up and running a heli boils down to personal choice and experience , and although some of what we do may be different , i think we both are trying to be the safest we can

i have always understood that to run an engine without some form of headloading can be harmfull to the engine , and this is what promted me to say do not start and run it without main blades , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-15-2008 02:43 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
GAS engines require an extreme amount of respect, It seems some of that is lost with the easy availability of gassers. A whole different level of respect is warranted.

I think this statement is a bit misleading. I believe the whole hobby requires an extreme amount of respect regardless of the power source. Why pick out gas as though it is more dangerous? There is a difference in the amount of respect if you are comparing a gas powered aircraft to a .049 or an electric park flyer. But if the model is of the same proportions then the respect should be the same. An electric powered 90 size heli has the same potential for damage as a gasoline powered 90 size heli. There is no difference.

To the best of my knowledge, no one puts a 3 pole mechanical contactor on the motor leads of an electric powered heli. Because of the motor controller is a microprocessor there is a potential for the motor to start on its own with out signal input. The instant you connect the battery the motor can take off full tilt.

Quote 
It seems the gasser Heli community does not embrace this tenet , some even villify it. This baffles me. I think it is myth based, and just plain ignorance.

You can call it what you like but there are differences between planks and helis. First of all, helis do not have their rotors directly connected to the engine. Normally the engine is more accessible in a heli than a plank so there are several ways to prevent injury from an engine kick over. No one can get hurt if the choke is left on or the throttle is down to idle or the primary wire is disconnected or the plug wire is disconnected. The need for a kill switch on a heli is not the same as a plank. To not know this would be ignorance.

Ace
What could be more fun?
05-15-2008 05:49 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

I'm pleased to be generating debate

Safety first.. even with a small heli. I've already had one accident and a shattered finger, some months ago.. I didn't plan that and I don't plan to repeat it. I was being cautious before and I'm downright paranoid now which it why I keep raising these questions.

To me a belt and braces approach just makes sense. Pulling a live plug lead off.. well I don't know how the current here compares to cars or motorcycles.. but for sure they give you a twitchy arm if you try that trick..

Back to the kill-switch question..how much current goes down that kill wire for a simple on-off switch?

Which is quicker, choke or kill wire.. both can jam.

And if I can add another quickie? Capacity of the tank? 22oz did I read somewhere? 'Average' flight time? (and yeah I'm sure soemone here can wring it dry.. it's not a technical question , just a guesstimate is all.. )

pgk
05-15-2008 06:43 PM
 
 
bosshoss
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

Quote 
The need for a kill switch on a heli is not the same as a plank.


Myth based and ignorance personified. JMHO.

Wanna hover??? Buy a helicopter.
05-15-2008 07:00 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi pgkevet

i run a remote kill and will not set up a gas heli without one , i also run a velocity stack so choking the engine is as simple as putting my hand over the opening , a switch kill and a choke kill are both very fast , the black kill wire from the coil is low current so almost any switch would work , that being said , i would think you would be much better off with a remote kill than a manual kill switch , as the manual switch is very limited in its usefulness and redundant if a remote kill is used , and 22 oz will be around 45 minutes if i remember correctly , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-15-2008 07:14 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

..now everyones got that out of their system...how about getting back to dumbo me's questions?

pgk
05-15-2008 08:14 PM
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi pgkevet
i could be confused but i think i did answer your questions in my last post , i highlighted the sections of my post above to help you see them , see red , green and blue , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-15-2008 08:24 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Blazobob,

Thanks.. you have answered the questions and it's much appreciated. If you notice the times between your answer and my repeat request then it's a few minutes.. I was called away to a patient when I had started writing and then returned and completed my request.. crossed in the email, so to speak...

..colour coding works for me..

pgk
05-15-2008 09:26 PM
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi pgkevet

i was thinking my first sentence had thrown you off , but it was ment as a warmup to using a remote KS as apposed to a manual KS , i wanted to answer about the current and a standard switch , but get in my two cents on manual switches also , i see also how people
Quote 
quote
a question and then state the answer , and i am seeing that would have helped me to get my point across also , it's not just helis , it's learning in general , for all of us , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-15-2008 09:42 PM
 
 
whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

One thing to keep in mind.....Most of the time the kill switch on a plane takes out the power source for the ignition. Most Gas heli motors have a magneto.....


Mike
05-15-2008 09:53 PM
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi Mike

thanks , yes it is important to understand , this is why i have been mentioning that for a magneto you want a normally closed relay , the radio has to be up and running for the relay to open and allow the magneto to function , if power is lost , the relay closes and shorts the magnetos coil , stopping the engine

with an electronic ignition , it is the opposite , you use a normally open relay , for the signal wire from the pickup ( hall effect ) and if power is lost to either the flight pack or the ignition pack the engine stops

while either system is up and running you can kill the engine with an AUX switch on the TX , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-15-2008 10:01 PM
 
 
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Model Rectifier Corp . PowerHelis . JR-Spektrum

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > After the build..
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