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Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > After the build..
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Predator Construction should be finished tonight - then just the CCPM interactions and a fiddle/tidy-up to go. Afer some reading I bought an alloy isolator block and teflon gaskets.. shove it on now?

What I need from you guys, please, is a 101 guide to safely firing this thing up. Don't assume anything. I've never flown an IC heli.

There's also no point repeating stuff about US brands of oil that I can't source here. Closest I have found so far is Castrol TT as a 2-stroke low residue mineral oil to mix in unleaded pump petrol.

25:1 mix as a guess?
Test start without blades?
Some tx settings to start out with?
Warnings and solutions
Then blades and tether and run it for a while?
Test fiddle with the low needle?
Take it to the field and maiden?

Appreciate advice but think back to your first time, please...

<and for those who followed the build.. I have yet another new bowl This one's called 'All the bits that are left over - Um!' >

pgk
05-13-2008 09:01 PM
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

HI, I would go for castrol TT S if you can find it, I’ve run three gasser in using it at 33:1, the more oil you use the les critical the needles settings are, you can find it at any Halfords store for about £11
Make sure you setup the throttle cut on your TX before you try starting the engine, all blades off would be a good move for your first start up.

Good Luck
05-13-2008 09:10 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

The best advice I could give you is join a club and let them look it over and maiden it for you.
05-13-2008 09:14 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

<<The best advice I could give you is join a club >>

No-one local with a gasser. Certainly my intention to have some nitro-savvy assistance and I do fly a 600E. In other words I'n not a complete idiot, but would still like an idiot's guide.

Castrol TTS is full synthetic and my reading and the advice from kit vendor was to run-in on mineral - comments?

pgk
05-13-2008 10:10 PM
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi
a lot of people break it in with something like lawnboy ashless , not sure if you can get it in the UK , and then switch to a full synthetic after a gallon or so , but there are about as many ways to go as there are members here , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-13-2008 10:24 PM
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Quote 
to run-in on mineral

Some prefer to do it that way as it speeds the run-in process up but run it lean and its curtains, full synthetic takes longer but it's more tolerant if you do have a lean run caused by air leaks or wrong needle settings.
05-13-2008 10:27 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

<< lawnboy ashless , not sure if you can get it in the UK , >>
Not available UK ...found closest alternative..

<<and then switch to a full synthetic after a gallon or so , but there are about as many ways to go as there are members here , >>

But then present it as the only way.. which confuses newbies

Zenoah's manual suggests two-stroke mix and go - with only comment that will be a while before get full power and that needles pre-set for average conditions (I'm at 2-300 hundred feet above sea level and temperate weather)

pgk
05-13-2008 11:22 PM
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

Quote 
But then present it as the only way.. which confuses newbies


Hi pgkevet

Yes , i can see you are becomming an old hand at this , i searched and read posts for over a week before i threw the towel in and just went with Blazo and Amsoil ( not that i am recommending it ) there are so many , this way only opinions , it can be confusing , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-13-2008 11:31 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Quote 

25:1 mix as a guess?
Test start without blades?
Some tx settings to start out with?
Warnings and solutions
Then blades and tether and run it for a while?
Test fiddle with the low needle?
Take it to the field and maiden?

- Well I don't know too much about the oil but I went with a 32:1 mixture of the Ashless mineral oil

- I would NOT start it up without blades. If the clutch grabs at all you'll want the extra weight and leverage.

- Don't tether it! Just run it on the ground

- I set both the needles to 1.5. Start it up and run it at a fast idle for a few minutes. Shut it off and repeat for the first tank. 2nd tank was at near hover speed with very light revs, sitting on the ground. Shut it down and let it cool ever 5-10 minutes. Don't know if this the right but it's about what I did.

After the 2nd tank I was flying around. Gentle on the collective, just running it around in circuits. gentle loops, rolls, auto's. just burning fuel. A few throttled climbouts but nothing too hard or too long of a climbout.

...yep...
05-14-2008 12:05 AM
 
 
zone8
Senior Heliman
Location: Ireland

With my new gassers I've always had success burning the first 2-3 gallons with Castrol Super TT mineral 25:1, available everywhere in the UK, then switch to Castrol TTS synthetic 35:1 or 40:1, also available everywhere.

Both needles 1 1/2 open, first tank just idle. Blades on from the start and no tether!

Pitch curve as you like, throttle curve low to start, until you tach the head.

Beware that gassers bite due to the high torque, therefore I would just hover the first tank or two at eye level with my finger on the kill switch, if something bad happens just kill the engine and land nicely. By all means you don't want a chicken dance with a gasser.
05-14-2008 12:09 AM
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi
somehow i missed your first post , thanks you to jschenck's last post for pointing it out

i agree with him completely

do not start and run it without main blades

do not tether it or tie it down in any way


set it up , and double check your pitch response , in whatever flight modes you choose , this would be with the engine off , if you want -5 degrees at bottom stick , and +10 at top ( just tossing in numbers here ) make sure you are getting these with a pitch gauge in those modes

if you have not run a IC heli before there are a few things to know , make sure the throttles butterfly is closed when the TX throttle stick is down ( throttle not reversed )

put one foot on a skid , and have a good grip on the head with one hand when you pull the starter chord , you want to be ready , especially for the very first start to be able to kill the engine , if something goes wrong , say the ignition or vibration causes glitching , i am thinking you could choke the engine to kill it in case of trouble , once you have started it and it behaves , this is not a problem , it is just a machines maiden start up you should be ready for anything , don't ask me how i know

once it is running , you can back off to a safe distance and run it up a bit , or let it idle , you can run it up till it is just getting light on its skids , and idle back down and run it some like this , this is a good time to be able to tach it , and if you go into hover , expect the tail to kick some as with factory carb settings it will be rich

once you get to hover , watch to see if the tail is hunting and set your gyros gain , check the temp of the tail servo when you land , if the gain is too high it can get hot

i like to hover for just a few minutes , and then land and look over all the links and fasteners , this is a good time to find out if you forgot to loctite anything

there are only about a million things to cover and i have just scratched the surface , i hope some of this helps , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-14-2008 12:10 AM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Oh, something I've learned over the last year with gas heli's - make sure the radio is not in the "line of fire" when you are pull starting. I put the radio on my left side when starting the predator as the pull chord goes to my right side.

ALWAYS double check the radio switches and throttle position before the pull start. always. make dang sure you are not in idle-up and that the throttle is all the way down. This is true with any IC heli but especially true on a gasser. These have a lot of torque which will come on fast and hard with a huge clutch which will put it right to the driveline. I have had a few hot starts with a nitro-50 and they are not fun. a gasser would be flat out dangerous wide open.

check out Raja's "starting a gasser" video

put the idle a little lower than you think it should be. Work your way up until it starts and hold an idle.

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t418898p1/

...yep...
05-14-2008 12:42 AM
 
 
TooBizzy
Senior Heliman
Location: Georgetown, Ohio USA

Watch your headspeed. I was fooled the first time I spooled up my Predator. Was over 2000 and didn't seem like it. Its best to have a tach from the get-go.

You say you have a 600E. Throttle curves on a gasser are nothing like an electric or nitro. Throttle settings @ hover will be roughly 25-30% throttle opening. This will get you in the ballpark. Don't want to start a a throttle/pitch curve war here by posting what works for me.

P-Gasser Se, Raptor 50 Se Hyper, Raptor 30v2, Trex450se, 3dx450...
05-14-2008 02:29 AM
 
 
Toadster25
Veteran
Location: Iowa

I think most of us gasser guys don't use a kill switch but just close the throttle to kill the engine. Just remeber that if you do ever have a hot start the choke will kill it and I am pretty sure if you hold the primer pump down the engine will die too. I've only had one hot start and wasn't using a choke at the time so I just started pumping the primer and it died when I held it down.
05-14-2008 03:49 AM
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Thanks folks,

This is what a forum should be .. practical advice that makes sense without arguments.

How about a clamp on the fuel line as another safety option?

pgk
05-14-2008 06:53 AM
 
 
helicenter
Senior Heliman
Location: Winter Haven Fl.

clamp

Try the clamp and see how long it takes to shut down.

Doug
05-14-2008 12:39 PM
 
 
bosshoss
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

Why not use what every planker gasser uses? , and is mandatory at all sanctioned events:

a remote ignition kill on the transmitter. THere must be a way of killing the motor independent of the throttle servo.

Smart-Fly Opti-kill or RC-Cats , or equiv. No excuse at all not to run one.

It seems the gasser Heli community does not embrace this tenet , some even villify it. This baffles me. I think it is myth based, and just plain ignorance.

A Smart-fly Opti-kill will kill the motor in the event of power loss to the receiver, the most critical of failures.

No excuse not to use one. And you won't fly one at our field without one.

Wanna hover??? Buy a helicopter.
05-14-2008 01:01 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
blazobob
Senior Heliman
Location: us

hi bosshoss

i agree with you , a remote kill is a good idea , i am aware that it is argued against here in the gasser forum , but it does boil down to personal choice , and if someone refuses to use one , lets just hope they don't end up getting bit , there is no harm in discussing them so people can make an informed decision , as you say , it can be set to cut the engine in event of power loss and i see this as the important point , bob

RR Master wannabe
05-14-2008 01:55 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

<<Try the clamp and see how long it takes to shut down>>

Was that being cryptic? Because if it is a long time then please tell me so I don't bother. I'm trying to be as responsible and safe here as possible.

<<A Smart-fly Opti-kill will kill the motor in the event of power loss to the receiver, the most critical of failures.>>

To me that sounds like a good idea. A jammed servo/throttle situation also worries me - even if it's a bit of usseen plastic bag or something that gets caught up.

pgk
05-14-2008 02:52 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

I put a zip-tie on all my fuel line connections. I think it's a good idea as the fuel line gets pliable when exposed to gas making air leaks possible, could even have the fuel line slip off.

...yep...
05-14-2008 02:52 PM
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > After the build..
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