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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Aerial Photography and Video > Electric backup on gasser???
 
 
Smithprod
Veteran
Location: Oklahoma

Video


I just got a headsup on this video...I don't know any details but I want to know!
05-11-2008 02:31 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Hey Brad,, that's cool,, I wonder how much weight in battery for the electric motor?? But interesting,,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
05-11-2008 02:44 AM
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Smithprod
Veteran
Location: Oklahoma

John, I don't know but I'm sure we'll find out soon enough. As you well know, gassers are dang reliable but an electric backup is sure interesting. Weight is the definite issue though!

Brad
05-11-2008 04:07 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

I'm very interested in how and what all it take to make this work,,, and the weight penalty for all the electric stuff... But again very interesting,, And just think how long you could stay in the air, with both gas, and electric... I'd have to have a chair around close... XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
05-11-2008 04:28 AM
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fitenfyr
rrProfessor
Location: Port Orchard, Washington

Pretty sure that is an Airfoil concept.

Follow the link to the Skycam4 user and you will see some GT500 videos.
Pretty sure that is the same car John O has shown here a couple times.

Would be a good system for a high risk location like over water, but I am thinking the weight penalty would be killer.

Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
05-11-2008 05:29 AM
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xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
Pretty sure that is an Airfoil concept.
Dang,,, there goes my interest,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
05-11-2008 05:54 AM
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Disciple4123
Veteran
Location: Waynesboro, VA USA

Redundancy has value, but only when it does not impart addional failure points or stresses. On a similar topic I ran twin engines for 4 months, and enjoyed it, but had issues with EMI, eventually resulting in a crash. It is now a single again. Besides I was a little tired of hauling a 29LB machine around to take low-alt photos, it was too much machine for a simple job. I also did not trust my belt drive, an XL belt with a mitsubishi engine pulley for tensioning, did not fail me, but a heavier or doubled belt would have been preferred

Here's some pictures of the twin, it did fly smooth and strong.
[url=www.aerialphotographyservices.com/twin]

Eric
05-11-2008 07:04 AM
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FLAP
Veteran
Location: Michigan

seems like an electric backup to an electric motor would be better as there seems to be more ESC/electric motor failures than gasoline motor failures.
05-11-2008 12:41 PM
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Its just an electric/gas hybrid.
05-11-2008 02:00 PM
 
 
AirFoilAviation
Veteran
Location: Quincy, IL.

Quote 
seems like an electric backup to an electric motor would be better as there seems to be more ESC/electric motor failures than gasoline motor failures.

This design came about for a company that needed a backup system to make sure if something happened they could get the heli back to a safe area to land. After that was accomplished we found other pluses by having the unit on the heli.

This is designed for the GSR now but others are to come. Yes we are working on a version for electric heli’s now.

It’s called the “Electric Recovery System”.

Keep in mind the video is R&D not designed to fly the heli just recover it. You are also correct Gas or Zenoah engines have a great track record so why use this? A couple of reason. If you are new to gassers this is a big safety net if the carb is set wrong or the motor goes lean/ any type of incorrect engine setting this can save a motor and equipment.

One really big plus is on the bench. You can now run the gasser via the ERS w/o main blades installed to look for vibrations. Lets you set the heli up perfect before putting a camera under it. You now know it runs at 100% with no vibrations before you test fly.

How it works. The system uses two 4 cell Lipo packs in series then connects with two BEC’s to operate the radio system. It’s belt drive with a two one way bearings so the typical flight of the heli never knows the system is aboard. Nothing is rotating or changes anything in the heli’s operations. On most radios you can program mixes which is how we found this works best. We tested with the JR 9303 mixing the gear and throttle hold so when you flip one switch it activates the ERS to keep the head speed up to 1600+ in forward flight to get to a safe landing zone.
Once there you can flare and land similar to an autorotation but this system keeps the head speed up to eliminate tail boom strikes or basically any damage to any of the equipment.

Additional weight is around 19oz’s depending on the weight of the flight batteries and switches you are removing. With 1 ½ - 2 minutes of safe ERS flight. This system will not hover a complete AP system with a basic weight of 23lbs but will let you have a slow descent in forward flight to the safe zone while keeping the head speed up to be able to flare then hover for about 5 seconds and land safe. Lets you have an engine problem now at any height and save the equipment.

May not seem like much but flying knowing with one switch you can save the heli and camera equipment takes a load off when flying AP.

The cost is typical cost of one crash with an AP heli.
Complete Belt drive system with new tail drive pinion/ with mounting hardware.
New main gear now machine from Teflon impregnated Delrin AF.
Brushless motor and ESC with connectors.
$499.00
With 2- 4 cell Lipo Extreme V2 2200mah packs with a in series connector
Total cost $ 689.00

No you don’t need to run out and change to the upgraded main gear. We just found the best material we could to insure no failures under high stress loads or high temps.

Hope this helps.

John

Team AirFoil
05-11-2008 02:55 PM
 
 
meflyjeep
Senior Heliman
Location: On the ground and in the air ...

Great idea, John. Very innovative; I can see that upgrade in my future! Will the standard GSR260 canopy still fit with the extra equipment on board?

meflyjeep
05-11-2008 04:40 PM
 
 
AirFoilAviation
Veteran
Location: Quincy, IL.

No changes needed for tail fairing or canopy. This is the Thermalcam unit so it doesn't use a tail fairing. The only thing you will see is the motor.





New main gear that will be an upgrade to payload 18 lbs.



Hope this helps.

John

Team AirFoil
05-11-2008 05:53 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Interesting idea, good work John.


David
05-11-2008 06:23 PM
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FLAP
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Very slick indeed. Very innovative and it looks like a nice neat package.
Now you just need to work on a redundent tail drive, servos, and gyro!
05-11-2008 06:32 PM
 
 
AirFoilAviation
Veteran
Location: Quincy, IL.

Quote 
Now you just need to work on a redundent tail drive,

Thanks guys. Funny you should say that. This is connected directly to the tail drive pinion via a one way bearing and pulley system with a kevlar belt. Another good point for this product is if you would have a main gear failure and have to auto when you click throttle hold you will have full tail control without using or losing any rotorhead speed. The gyro and tail rotor would function as normal with this system without stealing main rotor RPM.

John

Team AirFoil
05-11-2008 07:46 PM
 
 
aambrose
Elite Veteran
Location: Pana, IL

Quote 
Dang,,, there goes my interest
Ah, c'mon John, this is a great concept IMO.

Can't wait to see more of this! Will it be available through you or are you working with Horizon on this?

Thanks!


Tony
05-13-2008 03:34 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
Ah, c'mon John, this is a great concept IMO.

I couldn't agree more Tony,, Very Cool... and if Horizon sells this,, I might just look into getting one, in the future,, but only thru Horizon. XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
05-13-2008 04:25 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
AirFoilAviation
Veteran
Location: Quincy, IL.

It was designed by us which we will be shooting a promo for late this week. Will be sold by AirFoil not Horizon.

The item was originally going to be used for Thermalcams only but we started using it shooting spheres and will definitely be using it while flying off the boat.

If the weather works out we should be posting a video Monday.

John

Team AirFoil
05-13-2008 04:48 PM
 
 
meflyjeep
Senior Heliman
Location: On the ground and in the air ...

Not to speak for him, but latest PM from John indicates that
Quote 
"Yeah. I sighed the contract. They own all the right we are just manufacturing it for them. ... The company we built it for bought all the rights to the system. They will hit the market but it looks like as a Thermal based product for Flir."
So, retrofit is apparently not possible as a kit from A/F.

meflyjeep
05-20-2008 12:57 AM
 
 
andyman_sf
Senior Heliman
Location:

So when is this available again? I mean is it in production and I assume I can order through AirFoil?

andy
05-20-2008 08:31 AM
 
 
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Aerial Photography and Video > Electric backup on gasser???
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