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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > RAPTOR 50 Do I need Infinavation Dampers or am I missing something???
 
 
helibatics
Heliman
Location: Cheshire, UK

Hi all

I've searched the archives and am still not sure what's up.

I've recently started learning to chaos and also installed a DX7 to my old trusty.

Problem is my red dampers don't seem to last a flight. Sunday ended in my mains playing with my tails

So this is my setup:

- Raptor 50.
- Metal TT swash
- Metal rotor hub
- TT red dampers
- Damper lube is Pure silicone oil
- TT carbon blades 140-160grammes each
- OS 50 Hyper
- MP2 exhaust
- ± 10° pitch range
- ± 7° cyclic both pitch and roll
- 2100 rpm headspeed
- 92mm carbon tail blades
- Hitec HS 6965 digi servos on cyclic
- Hitec HS 5925 Digi servo on pitch

This cyclic is ballistic, and after 1 (one) flight of hard 3D involving learning chaos, very quick tick tocks, aileron ticktocs, and some 4 point ticktocks thrown in for good measure my red TT dampers look like they do in the photos. I.E. Trashed! The whole is open wide and the spindle is loose

I've been through three sets this week.

Also, I'm bending spindles almost every flight... (Probably due to the dampers dying)

It's getting boring changing bits every flight.

Is this normal? Is there something wrong? Am I getting too heavy handed?

Some of you guys are getting many (like at least 10) flights on a set of red dampers doing hard 3D!

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Geoff

05-06-2008 09:57 PM
 
 
OK HELI
Senior Heliman
Location: Enid,OK-USA

the infinative dampners are better but there is no reason why the red ones should wear out in 1 flight like that.
the only thing that comes to mind is make sure the spacer isn't worn thin.

Raptor 50 Titan with DX7, GY401, and TT Redline 53 is Awsome!
05-06-2008 10:24 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

This does not sound right at all. The only time I bend a spindle is when I hit something. I had the same set of dampers all last season (10 gallons ?) - even ran a set of blue for a year. I do fly 2000-2100 RPM and throw it around a bit, not hard 3D but bad tic-tocs which stress everything, tail slides, fast piro's, rolls.

What are you using to lube the spindle & damper?

...yep...
05-06-2008 10:54 PM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Quote 
- Damper lube is Pure silicone oil

oops, I see it. Maybe try a different lube?

...yep...
05-06-2008 10:55 PM
 
 
helibatics
Heliman
Location: Cheshire, UK

Thanks for the comments.

I did have some wear on the spacers between the grip and the damper but replaced these with new ones before I trashed the last set...

I wonder if the material is old stock and is simply not as strong as it should be.

I've ordered some more and a new spindle. I'll try again and post comments.

If these also collapse it's time for a set of Infinavations.

I'm getting the 'Get a T-Rex 600N' comments, and am adamant that my Raptor still has life left in it...
05-07-2008 09:51 AM
 
 
BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

Mine has a Kasama head and I thump on it pretty hard with some (admittedly ugly) 3d and I don't go through dampeners like that.


AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
05-07-2008 03:27 PM
 
 
hornet dave
Veteran
Location: Pittsburgh PA USA

i had good luck using silicone GREASE.

LaHeli Maxir - The only micro that matters
05-07-2008 03:28 PM
 
 
AMainMaker
Key Veteran
Location: Nappanee,IN

You might want to try a lighter et of blades. From the weights you mentioned sounds like you are trying to 3d FAI blades. With the extra weight you can easily wear parts faster. I am using regular Radix and I believe those come in at a max of 135 each. Most of the V blade guys using the new tst blades are weighing in around 120 gs each blade.
Thats just my thoughts I am not certain this is correct for your problem but I have a good feeling lighter bladeswould improve your wearing issues. Also with the infinavation dampers I have been flying mine till I break them in a crash and when I do break them there are not ovaled out like you are showing in your pics above. I am running 12 degrees of pitch with 8 degrees ofcyclic at 2300 on the head and do not have this issue.
Hope this helps
jason

Thunder Tiger Rep
Wildcat Fuels
Kong Power
Sw!tchGlo
CY Enterprises
05-08-2008 03:04 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

Another topic with the same problem just popped up, I wonder if they let a crate of bad dampeners out.


AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
05-08-2008 03:50 PM
 
 
helibatics
Heliman
Location: Cheshire, UK

Hmm, I had been wondering about the quality of the parts.

They seem to have gone plastic around the spindle shaft, unlike when they break apart in a crash or after being overworked for many many flights...
05-08-2008 04:01 PM
 
 
Curt-J
New Heliman
Location: Surrey England

Gotta be a bad batch, fitted a new set of red dampers last week and they lasted 2 flights. Never had problems before only normal wear. Definately something to watch out for!
05-09-2008 08:08 AM
 
 
helibatics
Heliman
Location: Cheshire, UK

It's so frustrating because when the dampers got he spindle normally seems to go with it!

I've got a new set in and it's survived 2 flights. Quite an achievement at this stage. Hopefully this batch is a better rubber.

I'll post how they hold up to the weekends abuse.
05-09-2008 09:22 AM
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Sounds like you might have better luck with some blue dampers and an extra shim

...yep...
05-09-2008 02:29 PM
 
 
Mike Bilyk
Heliman
Location: Tulsa, Ok

im having the same problem!



AMA # 617778
05-09-2008 10:22 PM
 
 
JimmyC
Heliman
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland USA

I changed my reds recently, too. They lasted 3 flights. I think there is a bad batch. I went to infinavations. They have been awesome!

JimmyC
05-10-2008 03:50 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
helibatics
Heliman
Location: Cheshire, UK

I've got 9 flights on the new set I installed. It must have been a poor quality batch.

I still managed to bend the spindle.

Will Infinavations reduce spindle bending by supporting the spindle better and closer to the blade and thus reducing the moment arm on spindle?
05-10-2008 05:05 PM
 
 
BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

Closer to the blade? They go the same place as the stock ones. The improvement is that they are hard plastic riding on rubber o-rings. The o-rings provide a soft center for a smooth hover w/o nodding, the hard plastic keeps the blades off the tail boom. The downside is they are like 18 bucks and if you crash they will probably crack in half.


AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
05-10-2008 09:56 PM
 
 
helibatics
Heliman
Location: Cheshire, UK

Thanks. That's how I understand them to work too.

I suppose what I meant was that with the stock red dampers, if the damper gives (and it does), the pivot point of the spindle is the centre pin in the metal head (that the spindle passes through). The spindle is essentially supported by that single pin during big collective useage manoeuvres.

Using a much harder damper to support the spindle moves the pivot point on the spindle closer to the blade (about the dampers) and distributes the bending forces between the two dampers instead of it all being supported at the centre of the hub.

It might all be academic anyway. I might try a quick UK spindle. It's harder stainless compared to the stock steel version.
05-11-2008 12:56 AM
 
 
Mike Bilyk
Heliman
Location: Tulsa, Ok

Ace hobby have sent out bad red dampners!

i ordered three sets of dampners after first having this problem.

i got 2 packages that were the same and one was different. the font on the package and the bag size were not the same.

heres pics of band new never opened dampners...

good dampners, very hard plastic.


bad dampners, soft mushy(feels the same as the stock black dampners)



side by side. left side are the good ones, the bag is bigger and the font is bold. on the right side is the bad dampners, the bag is shorter and the font is smaller and not bold.



i talked to heliproz and the said they wouldnt do anything about it and i need to call ace hobbies. Ill let you guys know what Ace hobbies says when i talk to them.

AMA # 617778
05-24-2008 07:38 PM
 
 
newflyer2008
Heliman
Location: ga

Any updates?
06-04-2008 11:02 PM
 
 
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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > RAPTOR 50 Do I need Infinavation Dampers or am I missing something???
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