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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > OS HYPER 50 REAR BEARING CONCLUSION
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

I had my rear bearing go very very noisy yesterday all of a sudden which I thought was strange on a low miles engines which has always run rich and not abused.

Inside of engine was mint but the rear bearing was shot , when I first had the engine it was fitted in a Trex 600 which had a vibration so I did the crank mod which involved grinding the plate on the back.

I thought this must have been the cause to my early bearing failure , thought perhaps the out of balance may have been worse.

Any way my friend gave me his over heated blown up snapped con rod hyper for spares , so I thought great I will put the standard crank back in , but his rear bearing looked fine which I thought was strange has this engine had worked hard and always run too lean which resulted in him snapping the conrod.

When I removed his rear bearing all become obvious , his bearing was stamped NTN and had a part number , mine had no numbers and also the center race is slightly different.

I dropped his bearing and crank in mine and its running and sounding better than ever.

For his bearing to survive his bad treatment its obvious that OS have at some stage been using different bearing suppliers like others have suggested.

I would be carefull if you buy a new OS rear bearing , make sure its marked up NTN or another known brand other wise send it back.



Also yes I do intend to renew the rear bearing and put a new ring in it but its a bank holiday over here and ive got no spares.
05-04-2008 07:10 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

LOL well, as I have said, I have wondered if OS was using 2nd rate bearings,

so I just took 5 minutes with a magnifying glass to look at my Hyper 50 rear bearing I removed last week, there are no markings, no numbers, no name, nothing, so I don't know who made this baring,, this tells me it is NOT a brand name bearing..

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything
05-04-2008 09:00 PM
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Yes very dissapointing , I wonder what MR OS would say ??
05-04-2008 10:11 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nivlek
Elite Veteran
Location: Norfolk England

I've even wondered if some of the problems that people have had is because they are running their engines too rich ! Having a very rich mixture must put more strain on all parts of the engine as it has to compress more liquid fuel .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .
05-04-2008 11:34 PM
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Nivlek I know what your saying but this is the first engine ive had a bearing fail on .

Yes ive changed some rear bearing after like 80 gallons but thats when the piston etc needed doing and renewed the bearings the same time .

I truelly believe its because OS have had a mixed batch of rear bearings.
05-04-2008 11:41 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
baby_zyklon
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

The NTN bearing on my hyper went through 5gallon+ before it made funny noise and couldn't idle well. The NTN in my tt50 lasted 6gallons or so before it decided to throw a bearing cage out to kill the engine. Both were stock bearings. Replacement NTN bearings didn't last any longer either.

You can get NTN bearings from generic bearing shops for 3bucks or so.

Its more than just a bad batch of bearings, the bearing issue has been around for ages and people have tried "higher grade bearings" with no noticeable difference. In a not so scientific way, it appears to be just a matter of luck.
05-05-2008 01:08 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Im not so sure , I think you have 2 factors different bearing qualities and running them too lean and over speeding.

All I can say is my engine was nursed like I said my buddies was screamed and it blew , his NTN bearing in now in my hyper and is sweet has a nut im very pleased with it .

but its possible that theres different qualities of NTN bearings , lets face the facts these bearing were not designed to go inside a nitro engine .

I bought a set of 90 bearings the other day from a local bearing shop and these were for loads of uses.
05-05-2008 09:13 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nivlek
Elite Veteran
Location: Norfolk England

There are also different tolerance classes available , maybe that has some effect .
http://www.ntn.ca/bearing_tolerances.htm

At the end of the day , it gets dark .
05-05-2008 09:27 AM
 
 
harmdive
Senior Heliman
Location: Colchester. UK

Hello all

This is far too much of a coincidence. I've had two 50 hypers go on me due to bearing failure - the first lasted 18 months and that's fair enough with the amount of flying it had to do. Bought the second one and that lasted less than a year - bearing failure. My friend who has a 37 hyper - still a beginner so not thrashing it around, his bearings went last Sunday. Now you guys have said all this about the quality of OS bearings I'm thinking they are not as good as they used to be. I had a 37hyper that went on to gallactic mileage with some serious abuse and no problems. It seems that maybe OS have dropped their prices to compete with other manufacturers but I think they may have done it at the expense of the quality of their engines. I've now switched over to TT53 redline - 3 year guarantee and now trying YS50. Come on OS what are you playing at!!!
05-05-2008 09:58 AM
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Think OS are making more money out of it , all my buddies with failed hypers just go and buy another
05-05-2008 10:11 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hirobofly
Heliman
Location: Horten, Norway

Hi there.
For what it is worth...
I think the NTN-bearings will corrode/rust as fast as any other bearings if not treated correctly.
The key-word for corrosion in bearings is TEMPERATURE.

If you run your engines too rich, making them not reach proper operating temp, the bearings will only last perhaps a gallon or two.
Running high-nitro content fuel will make it possible to run too rich and still have power. The engine will not reach correct temp, and the burn will generate acid gases that corrodes the bearing (and crank, conrod-bushing, etc). I have had this happening after 3 tanks of fuel in a R90 with an OS90 C-spec.
The larger the engine, the "easier" it is to run the engine too cold.
Smaller engines like the OS50, is more difficult to run too cold, but possible with high nitro-content.

Also the additives in the fuel to prevent rust after it has been run will not function correctly if the engine did not have normal operating temp when stopped.

So, too lean engine will kill it. Too rich, and you'll kill the bearings.

Off course there are other factors as well, as storing the heli in humid conditions, flying in the rain, etc could also generate rust in the bearings. Also there are fuels with not so good oils, and this can also cause problems.
But, in general when someone struggle with rust/bad bearings with the same fuel/flying-conditions as other that don't have problems, the cause is too rich mixture/ too cold engine.

RJ
05-05-2008 02:45 PM
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

My worn unbranded bearing is in front of me here , totally no rust at all and its all pitted and worn out .
There was rust on the NTN bearing which was still ok and working fine again today .
05-05-2008 10:37 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RAK402
Veteran
Location: Alhambra, CA

Finless did a diseration on this a long time ago.

He went to someone who was a bearing expert.

If memory serves, the expert said that the materials used in the errant bearings could be better, and that electrolysis was what was causing the failures.


FYI,

Running too rich cannot destroy or damage a motor bearing. Running lean can, but not running rich.
05-06-2008 03:34 PM
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

I remember that post

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything
05-06-2008 08:28 PM
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Quote 
Running too rich cannot destroy or damage a motor bearing. Running lean can, but not running rich.

Hooray some one talks sence , yes because of all the extra oil going through them .

people are getting confused thinking that these bearings need to be up to a temperature to stop the wear , these are ball bearing not SHELL bearings which are tight when cold , yes you may get extra wear in the brass rod bushes and piston and liner but ive not yet seen evidence of that after striping an engine only seen problems after lean runs.
05-07-2008 10:03 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Jeff polisena
Veteran
Location: westpalmbeachflorida usa

If you run rich and do not clear fuel out of motor that is what hurts bearings not actually running rich you can ruin bearings more than one way , running hot , high speed and rust which is caused buy nitro fuel. I have had a rich low RPM motor go thru a bearing faster than a hot tuned motor (not temp but hot meaning performance)
I go thru bearings in my 90 OS too !!
Also I think you hear more about bearing failure now is because there is more rc heli pilots flying 50's than in the past

I dont know how to fly just how to not crash !!!!!
05-07-2008 10:39 PM
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Your talking about running rich with high nitro fuel now though , some guys for instance in the UK are using as low has 5% , and its the nitro that causes the damage not the waste fuel and oil mixture.
05-07-2008 10:50 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Jeff polisena
Veteran
Location: westpalmbeachflorida usa

Higher nitro yes more power under load
It is hard to explain everything you are thinking

I dont know how to fly just how to not crash !!!!!
05-07-2008 10:52 PM
 
 
StillTryin
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth, Western Australia

I think we have to face it that no-one really knows what is going on. Some bearings last for ages and some only last a gallon or two. There are many variables such as temperature, mixture, engine revs, flying style, after run oil, running the fuel out at day's end etc etc.

For my part, I took a nearly ruined bearing to a metalurgist who advised that it had basically been "hammered" to death, NOT rusted.

What seems to be working, in the face of all of this uncertainty, is treating the rear bearing similarly to the clunk line; it deteriorates and needs regular replacement.

We need to be on the alert for the signs of imminent failure and have a replacement program based on our own experience.
05-08-2008 01:38 AM
 
 
lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Still tryin think this is how the cheap bearings fail like mine , no rust just bearings hammered the races to death.
05-08-2008 07:44 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > OS HYPER 50 REAR BEARING CONCLUSION
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