RunRyder - New OS .50 sized motor ?

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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > New OS .50 sized motor ?

lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

cyclic fever hes talking about 1950 head speed , not engine RPM !!

And he should get more than 85 flights , like I said in a different post , its a fact which I found my self that OS fitted brandedless bearing in some of there hypers and NTN in others , I dont have to tell you which ones fail , stop blaming the owners

05-05-2008 09:07 AM

HOMEPAGE

cyclic fever
Senior Heliman
Location: Seymour Indiana

Yes, I know its headspeed. And whats makes you sure 85 flights arent enough? What is? Do you know how the motor was ran?

People see top pilots thrashing helis and want to fly what they fly. Its what goes on behind the scene that people dont see with reguard to how much matainence is required to have a heli perform like that.
With just motors alone they have a number of whole engines ready to go at a moments notice, a contest pilot can hot swap motors in less than 10 minutes, and a ton of parts for rebuilds. If your average Joe bought the Hyper because of his "Flights of fancy" wanting to see himself perform like those top pilots, of course he's going to be taken aback by the engine required matainence to operate at high headspeeds. The Hyper is not a bad design nor is the rear bearing, by and large, an issue, its simply a matter of some Hyper owners not wanting to swallow the fact that the engine is a contest engine and as such has a high requirement for tear down and rebuilds which is perfectly acceptable when high output for hard flying is needed.

05-05-2008 05:29 PM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

cyclic fever, I am sure you are right for a given amount of flyers,,

however ,,

my rear bearing only lasted 2.6 gallons, that's only around 20 flights, when I took the engine apart the ring was still black, so the engine wasn't even broken-in, I should get more than 15 good flights out of a $200 engine !!

and NO I did NOT lean it to much, it was run rich, and in-fact I did add some Byrons "Add a Oil" to my fuel for brake-in, HS was not over 1875, that's a engine RPM about 1640 on my Raven,

funny how many guys get 10 or 20 gallons on their Hyper 50s but as careful as I was I didn't, funny how my 22,000 RPM OPS boat engine bearing held up on 40% nitro !!!

if a bearing has NO markings, NO part number, NO name stamped on it then I have to believe it is a 2nd rate bearing,,

as I have said more than once on RR,, as I have been told by some one in the RC manufacturing business,, these bearing manufactures make only a given amount of bearings in a given size, if they run-out of stock they then buy more stock from other manufactures, this way they don't have to retool till their scheduled run,,, so if they buy from other manufactures they may be getting 2nd-rate bearings..

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything

05-05-2008 07:49 PM

cyclic fever
Senior Heliman
Location: Seymour Indiana

If I'm right for a given amount of fliers then you must be the exception and should have contacted OS for a warrenty repair. Stomping about on the net charging OS with some kind of "cut rate" manufacturing isnt warrented and rather unbecoming of you.

If I had a nickle for every time someone on the net that told me they knew how to run an engine and of course the engine was never abused...well you know the rest.

Truth is, I doubt your engine tunning abilities simply because your judgement in how your dealing with your Hyper problems is so poor.

My opinion in this matter may not be to your or others liking, but I see this happening this way more and more often. Suck it up, find away to deal with this issue properly, learn and understand what your needs really are in a motor and if OS doesnt meet them, move on.

05-05-2008 08:14 PM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

what ??!! now I know your just yapping out your back-end, it was not my first glow engine or heli engine ether, LOL you MUST be an OS rep !!,

how I dealt with the problem was figuring if I sent it in on warranty the bearing would be replace with another cheap bearing so I went down to my local bearing shop and ordered a higher quality bearing, that new bearing has MORE than 2.6 gallons on it since !!

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything

05-05-2008 08:50 PM

cyclic fever
Senior Heliman
Location: Seymour Indiana

Quote
how I dealt with the problem was figuring if I sent it in on warranty the bearing would be replace with another cheap bearing so I went down to my local bearing shop

And this is my point about how you've handled your problem. You see it as the only way to deal with it, and think your smarter because of it. You left the manufacturer out of it and unaware you had a problem that they could remedy. Since you desided to "fix" it on your own ,and then bash the manufacturer on the net,its a questionable way to handle it instead of having it looked at and repaired under warrenty. Sounds like you just got mad a said "heck with OS, I'll fix it better and show them" or maybe you screwed up and didnt want it discovered. To me, its just another example of someone not knowing how to deal with problems we all face from time to time enjoying this hobby.

Quote
it was not my first glow engine or heli engine ether,

Yes! made another nickle

05-05-2008 09:12 PM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

your name wouldn't happen to be Juan or Jeff would it, LOL

I am not on OS's back because of MY rear bearing !!!!, so dont be writing about stuff you no nothing about !!!,, I am on OS because of the many many bearings that have failed !! and many were tuned by peope that know how to tune,, kind-a like all those 40E carbs that needed modifying,,

"OH", so I suppose now you are going to tell me "Augusto" doesn't know how to tune a carb

I gave my reason why I replaced my bearing, if that is not good enough for you than that is just TO-bad for you !!!!!!

but here is more,, it would have cost me around $8 to send my engine to have the bearing replaced and it would have taken about 2 weeks,, but I ordered the bearing and got it the next day for $18, a day later my engine was running again,, it was well worth that extra $10 to me to do it my self,,

sorry if YOU feel I should have done it your way

besides, no matter HOW I dealt with it it does NOT change the fact that there is a problem, can YOU understand that ?????!!

still thinking your an OS rep

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything

05-05-2008 10:53 PM

Jeff polisena
Veteran
Location: westpalmbeachflorida usa

Now , Now

I find that if I run a lower head speed my bearings do not last as long and running rich, I run a high head speed and lean to ring out and get more flights I also change out my own bearings with Boca Bearings for $11.88 and local pick up and a better bearing than stock OS as well as YS they both use same bearings

I dont know how to fly just how to not crash !!!!!

05-06-2008 01:11 AM

freakyreef
Veteran
Location: usa

Interesting... My 3yr old hyper has markings on the bearing. I dont remember the number, but I remember it also says "Japan" on it. I should also note this is the original bearing with several dozen gallons of 30%.
I have always run it on the rich side (until a recent incident, damn maverikk pipe) at 1950 rpm.
That said, I dont hammer on the thing either. Mostly milder, big air flying so less stress, but I still can't believe it lasted this long.

Evo 50 Hyper, 9CHPS, 9252, gy-401\9254,CSM RL-10

05-06-2008 04:21 AM

cyclic fever
Senior Heliman
Location: Seymour Indiana

LOL..wasp your kinda buzzing off into left field here. All makes of engines have a certain rare number of defects, and yours could have been one. Chances are however, this rear bearing "problem" is most likly due to mis-handling by the user or it just reaches the end of its lifespan thru everyday use. As I said before, this is a contest engine and as such if ran to it full potential,or beyond, will reach the end of its lifespan much sooner than one ran milder and less frequent, and, as I said before, may take the sport flier by surprise. Many have tried to put aftermarket bearings in it claiming that OS's bearing was sub-par and some feel it lasted longer,while others ran thru them just as fast. This "problem" is mostly just a product of two things:
1. People buying high end equipment without realizing the commitment they need to make to the upkeep, rebuilds or repair to maintain the high power level of flying.

2. stuffing that much motor in that size of case, but what a great power to weight ratio.

with a few liget defects thrown in to give the other claims more merit.

05-06-2008 08:21 AM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

""left field"" ,, I was not the one that hit the ball

""contest engine""

then please tell us why the following "contest engines" bearings hold up, BUT OS does not,,

OPS 45 22,000 RPM boat engine,

OPS 91 22,000 RPM boat engine,

OS 91 25,000 Duct Fan engine,

K&B 21 23,000 RPM boat engine,

K&B 21 25,000 RPM boat engine,

K&B 45 25,000 RPM boat engine,

K&B 67 23,000 RPM boat engine,

OS 32 18,000 RPM heli engine,

Pico 91 22,000 RPM boat engine,

yes I have owned many of the engines list (OPS 45, OPS 91, K&B 45, OS 32 heli, Pico 91)

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything

05-06-2008 08:15 PM

cyclic fever
Senior Heliman
Location: Seymour Indiana

Largely because of number 2 in my above post. If the case could grow a little then a bearing of more size and mass could be used. Demand for ever more power will always push popular class sizes to the limit. This "problem" is not a defect but a RESULT of this effort, you getting the idea now? Which leads us to my #1 reason in that post: Unaware people buying a high output motor not knowing the full scope of what means in labor and cost of keeping a high performance ship flying.

Boat and airplane engines have less concern with the case size because of the greater flexibility they have for mounting. If they need a larger more robust bearing to handle the loads, no problem and someone will make a mount just for it if it needs it in the case of a boat or fan engine, in a plane you just space the two motor mount halfs farther apart on the firewall and bolt it down. Todays helis lack that flexibility. The .90 class ship may be headed the same direction with the 1.00"+ motors on the horizon, I havent fully read up on it yet but hopefully a larger engine mount will be used so these new motors wont share what is really the old 60 class case size. Otherwise we might have this same high wear rate there too.

Jim, it seems many could due well to have a bit more flexibility too, in their views on these problems. I agree with you in only the narrowest of terms. By Gosh! We should have a motor with a bearing that will hold up to anything we throw at it or do to it over and over, good or bad, while were at it,I want a motor that loves for me to fry an egg on it, I want a motor than can withstand repeated lean runs without complaint and a glowplug that wont burn out because of it. I want a piston that wont punch thru if I use a glowplug locking tool and crank down the fan like theres no tomorrow. 2100 rpm on the head? thats for wimps, I want 2700 at least outa mine. This list can go on but reason has got to factor in somewhere here. Maybe you got a bum bearing, I think you ran it too cool and took to long to break it in, 2.6 gals and still going? It should have been on full tilt by then. Either of us could be right or wrong but to learn what the problem is you gotta except we might be missing something and be willing to re-examine the way we do things.

05-07-2008 08:15 AM

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

I don't feel the bearing is to small for the engine, after all many have not had the problem,, OS should be using a quality brand bearing, but as we do know some of the bearings that people are pulling out of their OS 50s have no markings of any kind,, me~ I have never bought a bearing in such a size that was not marked in some way, and I have bought my share of bearings (small and large),, I can't believe a quality bearing manufacture would say to themselves "these 1000 bearings are going to OS, so lets save some money and not mark them",, I don't believe it, and we do know some of the bearings are marked,,

all that is good food for thought as I have said before, as I have been told by someone in the manufacturing business,, these bearing manufactures make only a given amount of bearings in a given size, if they run-out of stock they then buy more stock from other manufactures, this way they don't have to retool till their scheduled run,,, so if they buy from other manufactures they may be getting 2nd-rate stock

my OPS 45, what a wonderful engine, about the same size as an OS 50, on 40% nitro, 20,000 22,000 RPM on a cone pipe, ,,

on the other hand, I have talked to older plane flyers that have told me YS had a 61 whereby the rear bearing would not last 1 gallon, replace the bearing, 1 gallon later the bearing was bad, how many years ago was this I don't know..

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything

05-07-2008 06:13 PM

dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Quote
then please tell us why the following "contest engines" bearings hold up, BUT OS does not,,

OS makes a LOT of other engines...why don't you hear about rear bearings on most of their other motors failing as often as the 50's bearing?

Do they only only get and use those "second rate bearings" for the 50 and put the good ones in all their plank motors?

And when those "second rate bearings" are replaced with other bearings by their users, those fail too. Are we too always getting second rate bearings from our suppliers, too?

Argument simply falls apart when you look at other OS motors.

-----

* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave

05-07-2008 06:46 PM

RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

dkshema hit the nail on the head.

A 3D plank engine gets subject to a TON less stress than a heli engine sees by far, even just general use on a heli is more abusive to a motor than a 3D plank can do.

Its obvious heli motors for their life in a heli are going to run at a minimum of 15000 rpms or more, take on a lot of stress just powering the main rotor and tail rotor, add 3D into the mix, 2000+ rpm headspeed, leaning out motors for the max pop and its a wonder they even last that long imo.

A plank engine of similar size has to turn what, a prop the size of a tail rotor alone, run at full throttle on average maybe 30% or the time in a flight, and in general has much more cooling airflow than in a heli.

Chris

Logo 500 3D

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo

05-07-2008 06:54 PM

HOMEPAGE

cyclic fever
Senior Heliman
Location: Seymour Indiana

Quote
dkshema hit the nail on the head.

Ditto.

05-07-2008 07:54 PM

lightningrc
Key Veteran
Location: UK

cyclic fever you dont know what your talking about !!!!

Like has been said for some reason OS bought a batch of cheap unbranded bearings which fail very early , yes some guys even have the branded bearing fail when they treat them with no clue has to what there doing.

You need to have one fail on you to get the message , I could not understand what all the fuss was about but I never went around telling people it must be user error.

Ive been in the motor trade for over 20 years and been playing with nitro engines for 25 years so I can back Wasp up and tell you the facts , there not all from user error >

I can not send mine back as it was mail order from HK , but the only thing which has not been said is , my OS hyper was the Align version , did Align build these with OS parts and source the bearing them selves ??

05-07-2008 09:50 PM

HOMEPAGE

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

dkshema,, I don't know the answer to the problem, I'm only trying to get to the fix whereby we don't need to replace the bearings evry 2.6 gallons,,

but I do know a 2nd rate bearing will hold up at a given RPM,, lets pick 16,000 or what ever ?? go over that RPM or punish it and it will not hold up,,

think about it, these bearing are not marked, that should tell use something !!

Jim
the wife wont let me get a Monkey !!,,, damm, can't have anything

05-07-2008 10:47 PM

cyclic fever
Senior Heliman
Location: Seymour Indiana

Quote
there not all from user error

I dont think they all are either. Go back and try to read the posts this time.

Its not that I dont know what I'm talking about but that I just dont agree with what your talking about, and they're just opinions anyway, move on.

05-08-2008 09:43 AM

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