RunRyder - Blade CP+ Pro Tail going crazy after G90 Gyro install

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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX 400-3D > Blade CP++ Pro Tail going crazy after G90 Gyro install

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

I installed a G90 gyro on my CPP this weekend and having some issues with it. I have the gain and the portional mix trimmer pot turned all the way down (Counter clockwise)on the 3-in-1 control unit. I'm using CH 5 for the gyro gain adjustment. Well tonight I was practicing hovering nose in and the tail started to drift. So I adjusted the rudder trim and few clicks. Tail held good for awhile but as soon as I moved the tail it moves and then the heli starts to piroetting (spinning around and around like a top). I sit it down and try hovering again and the same thing. It will hold for awhile and then as soon as I move the tail left or right, the tail starts spinning around and around and I have to sit it down before it spins out of control. I'm using the stock tail setup and the RX/TX batteries are fresh. What's going on? This is the first time using a gyro on my CPP and it seems to work good but right now I have no idea what's going on. Thanks!

04-28-2008 03:18 AM

repodu2
New Heliman
Location: chesapeake,virginia

where is the gain set on the gyro itself ?

04-28-2008 05:55 AM

repodu2
New Heliman
Location: chesapeake,virginia

The gain on mine is set about fifty percent,and in the radio it is eighty,the tail holds real good there with no wag.that is on a spektrum radio.

04-28-2008 05:58 AM

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

The gain on the gyro itself is set to 50%. It's like the tail holds but when I move the tail to any position it's like the gyro stops working and I can't correct it and the tail of the heli starts spinning around and around. I'm using the stock radio.

04-28-2008 04:14 PM

speeddemon370
Veteran
Location: Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada

I would turn up the gain on the gyro till you get wag. If you're afraid of doing this in the air strap it to a lazy susan (more explanation is available if required) or put your training gear back on. The wag will be apparant once you're an inch off the ground so you don't have to get high. Then take off 1 or 2% gain until the wag or twitch is gone. This should solve your problem.

with 2 ears and 1 mouth you should listen twice as much as you talk

04-28-2008 06:45 PM

HOMEPAGE

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

Well I don't think it's a tail wag. The tail will hold but as soon as I move the tail it looses control an the tail spins around and around like a top. Then I try to correct and I can't do anything with the stick movements to correct. I have to sit the helicopter down. It's like the gyro just quits working and then I have no tail control. I've set the gain on the gyro it's self to 50% and the 5th channel knob to the 3 o'clock position and the gain on the 3-in-1 to zero and the pot to zero. I have no idea what's going on with the gyro and tail control.

04-29-2008 02:15 AM

speeddemon370
Veteran
Location: Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada

I never said it was tail wag. Hmmmmmmmm, different approach. You ever heard the saying "you don't know what's enough till you know what's more than enough"? Same goes for gyro adjustment. Turn it up until you CREATE tail wag. Then you know what's more than enough gain right? Turn it down ever so slightly from there until the wag goes away. Now you have you're highest possible gain setting for your heli. In otherwords if your tail still dosen't hold you're screwed and it's the gyro that's doa. Get it?

You don't have your gain set high enough. Period.

with 2 ears and 1 mouth you should listen twice as much as you talk

04-29-2008 03:18 AM

HOMEPAGE

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

speeddemon370 ....okay! It's now clear what I need to try. I thought that if your using the gain adjustment from ch5 on the TX the gain adjustment on the gyro wasn't needed anymore? Does that sound right?

04-29-2008 03:31 AM

tutelar-rc

Key Veteran - Location: Nobleton, Ontario - Canada -

Please confirm that you set up the gyro with the G90 gyro per the instructions starting on page 40 of your manual - including the remote gain wire.

Per your manual,

Code


In order to ensure proper operation and the best possible performance of the heading lock gyro,
it will be necessary to disable the standard rate gyro and mixer in the 3-in-1 control unit. This
is accomplished by turning the proportional mix trimmer pot on the 3-in-1 to the lowest, most
counterclockwise position (-). No adjustment of the gyro gain trimmer pot on the 3-in-1 control unit
is necessary.

(I know, I know - there are results with both the 3-in-1 and the G90 working well together, but lets get this working first...)
The manual is also available on-line at: [http://www.e-fliterc.com/ProdInfo/F..._Pro_Manual.pdf]

With the stock radio and reciever, you should be pretty close with the gyro gain knob at 3 o'clock...

When it goes out of control, does the tail motor actually stop spinning? What direction does it spin?

04-29-2008 04:16 AM

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

tutelar-rc....first off I've read the manual over and over again when I was setting up the gyro. I was thinking that I may have over-looked something. That's why I'm confused about what's going on. When hovering tail-in, after I make any stick movements to the rudder left or right the tail starts spinning to the left spinning the heli around and around. I try to move the rudder to the right to compensate for the out-of-control spinning but it doesn't help! It does look like the tail motor is still spinning but any input I try to apply doesn't help. Does that make sense? The tail motor is a new stock tail motor. I had the DD GWS tail motor originally installed but it burnt up. Since then I went back to stock setup and installed the G90 gyro. Thanks!

04-29-2008 04:30 AM

tutelar-rc
Key Veteran
Location: Nobleton, Ontario - Canada

Sorry - I read your original post again...

Sounds like the tail motor is kicking out. What happens if you remove the G90 and fly with just the stock 3-in-1 again?

Is the G90 in DS or STD mode? Try switching it, whatever position it is in...

Same thing when you are hovering tail-in?

04-29-2008 05:10 AM

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

I was running it with the stock 3-in-1 for one pack before I installed the G90 and it was working fine. Installed the gyro and have been tweaking the settings ever since. The gyro is currently in STD mode.

04-29-2008 05:20 AM

tutelar-rc
Key Veteran
Location: Nobleton, Ontario - Canada

Not to be a considered a smart-a.., but what happens when you are hovering tail-in?

Try switching to DS mode...

Also try increasing your gain (tail-in) until you get the tail to wag - does the tail still kick-out on you? What setting is the remote gain when it starts to wag?

04-29-2008 05:24 AM

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

tutelar-rc ....Thanks for the support and info. Currently I'm waiting on a blade grip for my CPP so I can try anything. Hopefully by the end of the week I'll have the part and have it back together to start some of the testing with the different settings. I've been learning to fly again with the CPP without using a HH gyro. Got sick of fighting the tail so I installed the G90 that I have. Hopefully I can get it all worked out. Thanks again.

04-29-2008 05:51 AM

zaw
Senior Heliman
Location: Lebanon, NH - USA

I had that issues when i went all separates. I don't remember how I fix it really but I disconnected CH5, play with reverse switch, played with the pot from extreme high to low, and one point it was wagging out of control, turn it down to stop the wag and work fine after that. I was using a no name head lock gyro from Wasp V3 then.

For the blade grip goes while learning you should down grade to Non Bell blades grips, they almost never break when you crash them. Bell hiller ones always seems to break near the screw even if the heli tip over and blade hit the ground trying to lift off. Also looking to HoneyBee CP2 part bin as well. they share a lots of parts together and Esky parts are cheaper. When your tail motor burn out just do Direct Drive tail.

BCP+CP2 mix Separates BL, DD-tail, HH //\\ HBK2 JGF 400 11T //\\ Friend's B400

04-29-2008 06:15 AM

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

I have a set of non-bell hiller blades grips new still in the bag. I've broken two bell-hiller grips just this week after installing plastic flat bottom blades. Both of the bell hiller grips that I broke, broke at the screw on the grip. I think I'll install the non-bell hiller grips while I'm waiting on the bell hiller ones to arrive. As far as the DD tail setup, I had this mod on my CPP but I burnt up the motor lastweek. I have a new motor and GWS tail housing on order. I'll try disconnecting the CH5 gain adjustment and mess with the gain adjustment on the gyro. Thanks for the advice on the non-bell hiller grips. I looked at those in my parts box and didn't even think of using them. Should have the CPP back together tomorrow and starting gyro testing.

04-29-2008 06:36 AM

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

Well the issue seems to be gone. I adjusted the 3-in-1 gain to about 25% and the gyro gain using the Tx to the 3 o'clock position and the tail is holding great. I can move the tail in any direction and it holds. Go figure?? Thanks for the help!

04-30-2008 08:50 AM

tutelar-rc
Key Veteran
Location: Nobleton, Ontario - Canada

Good to hear!

How do you find the non-bell hiller grips? I tried them once and could not fly it - I was too used to the sensitivity of the bell hiller grips...

Happy Flying!

04-30-2008 07:50 PM

TERollins
Senior Heliman
Location: Richmond, Va

Well the non-bell hiller grips make the heli a little more less sensitive to stick inputs. I'm waiting on a new set of bell hiller grips so the non ones work for the time being. It seems like I can hover a lot better in all orientations with the non-bell hiller. I know it's a step down but I'm still trying to master the CPP. Once I'm comfortable with the non-bell hiller grips I'll install the bell hiller grips. This CPP is a never ending challenge.

05-01-2008 12:48 AM

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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX 400-3D > Blade CP++ Pro Tail going crazy after G90 Gyro install

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