RunRyder - Predator Gasser build

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Predator Gasser build

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

yep - the bags-o-parts have nothing to do with the order of build or any particular build step. That'd be ok if they laid out "you'll need these for this step". I ended up getting some disposable plastic kitchen containers and dividing them up by what I thought was the steps or major assemblies.

But, once the build was behind me I am quite happy with the heli!

...yep...

05-06-2008 02:51 AM

pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

I knew it wasn't just me ..even I couldn't be that stupid

..It's the time wasted with digital callipers finding a part the right size...

I've also got neurotic over the feel of the engine after the 'war of the tapers'. Did it feel this tight at bottom centre before? Could my failure to dial indicate be to do with bearings? I never liked the 'hit it with a bit of wood approach' - I did tap it a few times with a rubber mallet - but if I did that in my day job I'd have dead patients.

Remember I have zero experience with engines. I think it's going to have to be a favour at the local garage for an opinion...

If it comes to it I'd rather tear the engine down now than later.. How hard can it be?

Meanwhile the upper frame parts make more sense - at least those are heli-bits I recognise; so I think I'll loose fit them all into place which should empty bags and make it look like I've done something.

That also gives Russ a chance to get ahead and warn me of the next issues..

..and gives me a chance to learn to fly better...

pgk

05-06-2008 06:57 AM

pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Sorry, more questions:

I have a bag labelled 'pre-gas reinforcement parts' : Are these for the Predator Wood or the Predator Carbon Steam? 'cos I haven't found any pictures in my build manuals that appear to use them?

Secondly: I've test mated the upper and lower frames parts and it looks like the carbon sits on the fan shroud..if fact looks like it need trimming/sanding about 2mm to align everything. Any reason why that should matter?

I'm also not comfortable with using stud-lock (red threadlock) on the bell pinion upper bearing. That could create nightares if I had to take it apart because of build error. The bearing sits well so it's going to get left like that unless you all have strong views with reasons why not.

Nothing on the upper frame parts is threadlocked yet..this was just assembled to be sure I'd found the bits and to understand how it goes and it's just sitting loose on top..

pgk

05-06-2008 11:41 AM

copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi pgkevet
here is a link to the engine PREDATOR GASSER ESS (ENGINE SABILIZATION KIT )

http://www.heli-world.com/detail.aspx?ID=8880

this link has some good photos showing it built and installed , HTH , dana

05-06-2008 12:16 PM

Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

Thanks copperclad, I was wondering what those bits were for too. ARGHH another mess, now I have to partially disassemble what little I have assembled due to the manual again.

Russ

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN

05-06-2008 12:20 PM

HOMEPAGE

copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Russ

it will start to look like one of the transformers pretty soon

, dana

05-06-2008 12:26 PM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

couple of notes:

1- Put the vent lin on now, the longer you wait the tougher it is.
2- put the throttle servo and cyclic servos in sooner rather than later. It's tough getting those plastic screw backings on. I put some servo plates on the servos that mount on the outside - picked from my Raptor's. Make sure you mount the servos on the inside that are supposed to be mounted on the inside. Are you going to run the tail servo up front?
3- You need to put the correct elevator crank on. The kit should have come with an aluminum one that is setup for push/pull. It's offset.
4- the fan shroud cuts real easy. Take a little off at a time when fitting it around the ESS.

I'll bet your engine is fine. Do try and get a minium runout on the clutch as it'll be spinning up to 12,000 RPM.

...yep...

05-06-2008 12:56 PM

pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

1) vent line .. remember i'm the idiot, complex terminology confuses me.. is that the top hole and where does the line coil to and how long or is it just supposed to spray fule over a hot exhaust?

2)I can probably do that.. got servos.. just ned to find pics of which way around. Got raptor straps..to match my eyes

Tail servo up front is another add-on isn't it? Don't think i got that extra and hadn't thought that far ahead..

3) this is the carbon kits with a different elevator bit.. on left with plastic crank that comes with it? Or am I talking rubbish again?

4) ESS - you mean I need to cut it about to get those ally extras on?

<< Do try and get a minium runout on the clutch >> I got what i got and can't get better <sigh>

Thanks for the tips.. anything helps..

pgk

05-06-2008 01:30 PM

Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

Quote
4- the fan shroud cuts real easy. Take a little off at a time when fitting it around the ESS.

What's the ESS? The Engine Stabization System?

Sorry for the silly question, just want to make sure I didn't "forget" to do something else the manual doesn't tell you..

Russ

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN

05-06-2008 02:49 PM

HOMEPAGE

pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

..local mechanic seems happy with my engine and he builds stuff that goes faster...

Now..All this shroud trimming and the way it butts against the upper frame and the frame front..that's gotta rattle??
..Any sort of high temperature mastic-like stuff one can stick and dampen it with that peels off if necessary?

pgk

05-06-2008 03:04 PM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Quote
What's the ESS? The Engine Stabization System? 4) ESS - you mean I need to cut it about to get those ally extras on?

yep!

Quote
1) vent line .. remember i'm the idiot, complex terminology confuses me.. is that the top hole and where does the line coil to and how long or is it just supposed to spray fule over a hot exhaust?

yep! - avoid spraying gas on the muffler

Someone recently posted a picture of a heli that had been barbecued. Looked like it was in the middle of a large camp fire. It was the result of a gas fire.

Quote
3) this is the carbon kits with a different elevator bit.. on left with plastic crank that comes with it? Or am I talking rubbish again?

My Carbon kit came with the metal elevator arm in a plastic wrap with several pockets filled with various hardware. It also has the plastic one that came with the elevator arm - that's in my spare parts bin for *when* I buy a glow powered Predator (?!!). Here is what it looks like. Also some pix of the ESS installed and my hack job on the shroud. I did seal it with some RTV but that probably was not needed.

...yep...

05-06-2008 03:48 PM

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Although it was not the case with me, most people that buy a gasser have already built and flown a heli. For some it probably was more than one heli. So I think a lot is left out of any gasser manual making the assumption you already know a lot.
I come from an industrial background where it is common practice to have just a bill of materials for the hardware (if you are lucky) and the hardware is usually in bins on the wall. You rely on your experience and knowledge for selecting hardware. I found no issues with the way the Predator was packed. At the time of my build all the screws were called out in detail in the manual. With the revisions and upgrades that have occurred since then I would expect discrepancies in a printed manual. That’s why many new products don’t have printed manuals anymore. They are far too costly to produce and maintain.

I know the a$$man likes to speak for me but the reason I produced my own frames is not because I thought the Predator frames were inadequate. The reasons were as follows:
1. Sandwiched frames with 19 screws and spacers between the upper and lower frame set makes it more difficult to keep things aligned. I think every heli made suffers from this type of assembly.
2. At the time of my build I could not fly any helicopter so I expected damage from the start. Having my own frame set would make it cheaper for me to replace.
3. I like working with stainless steel and know of its ultimate strength in the sheet metal form.
4. I changed the design of the frame set to make it modular both for ease of assembly and flexibility of use. The modular design makes it easier to switch from 3D, to AP or scale intensions.

I will say this about the standard frame set. I built the Predator as is (aluminum frames) and only had a few issues. Then I learned to fly (mostly hover) the first season. And it was not until the second season that I built the stainless frame for the Predator. This was also the time I added the jewel generator to my heli. I have had more than one inquiry about making these frames for other people so I am very happy with the results of my efforts. The bottom line is the difference between success and failure is not Century’s manual but rather what you know about building machines.

Quote
Thank you very, very much,, cause I'll never own a Century product,,

I am sure Century is thanking their lucky stars for that …
Unfortunately there are morons who bash Century and then come back and say they are not bashing Century because they want to be your mentor. If you follow their lead you will have an unhappy experience and start bashing Century too.

About the tank issues … Every heli manufacture has you drill holes in a perfectly good tank and fiddle with trying to make them leak proof. Century has a bung in their tank that is meant for tube fittings. This form of tube entry has been proven reliable for many many years and I can’t understand why people screw up a perfectly good system that has worked for years.

Ace
What could be more fun?

05-06-2008 05:07 PM

xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote
I am sure Century is thanking their lucky stars for that …

That's good cause I lost some sleep last night worrying about that

Quote
Unfortunately there are morons who bash Century and then come back and say they are not bashing Century because they want to be your mentor.

There you go again,,,, Talking out of your ass.....

Quote
If you follow their lead you will have an unhappy experience and start bashing Century too.

I think they were doing fine before I posted anything,,,

Quote
I know the a$$man likes to speak for me but the reason I produced my own frames is not because I thought the Predator frames were inadequate. The reasons were as follows:

Really

Quote
I changed the design of the frame set to make it modular both for ease of assembly and flexibility of use.

Sounds to me like you thought it could be better

I will say this again,, I'm not here to bash the Century line of helis,, there are allot of them out there flying, so they must fly pretty good,,, but to be having the same problems years down the road, after many people have complained, and they still don't fix there problem, but leave it up to the builder to fix,, Then,, Yes,, I will never buy or fly one,,, Thanks AceDird,, I knew you couldn't resist trying to bash me,, but that's ok,, Many here know the score,,, Are you getting to the RR Master status yet???

Well good luck you guys, and keep at it,, I'm sure they fly better than they go together

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

05-06-2008 05:29 PM

HOMEPAGE

Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

Acebird,
We all know that you are a Century lover. I hope to be one day soon too.
This thread is for the Predator Build issues, Just the truth no punches pulled and no ra ra for Century. Lets all stay on topic. If you'd like to make a thread telling about the great vurtues of Century please do so.
I am more than happy to read about problems that a manufacture has.
I've been in manufacturing for some time, well over 10 years as a machinist. I understand how things are made and how they go together. I've also been flying and building helicopters for over 10 years. That is why I think when I write about something like a build problem I'm not just blowing wind.

Russ

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN

05-06-2008 05:39 PM

HOMEPAGE

AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote
I've also been flying and building helicopters for over 10 years.

I question why you would need directions then.

If I gave you a print for a machined part would you need directions on how to carve it? Ten years huh?

Ace
What could be more fun?

05-06-2008 06:02 PM

pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Folks.. please chill..I need help building not a heated exchange..I don't have 10yrs real engineering or heli experience...my engineering has to do with steel and bone

My old Dad used to say "The clever man will always find a reason to explain things and a fool will know no better".. Which makes me know I'm a fool..'cos I considered this nonsense about the tank fittings, almost used the bung and didn't because I figured there had to be a reason

Questions needing answers..
How does this vent tube run and coil? I thought it needed a coil for inverted flight?
What the devil is RTV..some transatlantic mobile home?

pgk

05-06-2008 06:34 PM

Professorwiz
Veteran
Location: Livonia, Michigan - USA

RTV is a silicon sealant. It's usually used on car stuff, you can get it from an automotive store.

pgkevet - hint, just use the ignore feature of Runryder to make the thread a bit shorter and more informative.. It really does help and keeps the blood pressure level down..

: )

Russ

Go that way really fast.. If something gets in your way.. TURN

05-06-2008 06:56 PM

HOMEPAGE

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Quote
Questions needing answers.. How does this vent tube run and coil? I thought it needed a coil for inverted flight? What the devil is RTV..some transatlantic mobile home?

Vent tube - yep, put a coil in it to keep fuel from siphoning out while running around upside down. There are several different options for running it. I chose to run it down to the landing gear and putting a coil of the tubing around the gear. I think this time I will do it different and run it outside the frame and attach two coils of tubing near the carb lines.

Sorry about the RTV acronym - "Room Temperature Vulcanizing (RTV) sealant hardens when exposed to air."

http://www.permatex.com/products/Au...sket_makers.htm

...yep...

05-06-2008 07:00 PM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

Quote

Quote
I've also been flying and building helicopters for over 10 years.

I question why you would need directions then.

geez, that's kind of rough - I don't care how many airplanes and heli's I've built. I like to know I can get help from those that have already built this machine and figured out the particulars to it. Thank god I had the help of the likes of Bill Meador and James "AGRAV8" otherwise it may have taken several builds and lots of $$$'s to get to the point where I am with my first build.

...yep...

05-06-2008 07:06 PM

pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Deep joy..finally hit home that to install the ESS I gotta take out the cluch and fan <sigh>... and can't find my smaller spanners (wrench) set right now..glad I took the advice to use hex heads to back the fan off (assuming it works)..

..and then I get to play dialing again...

(did I mention I hate building helis? ..only build them so i can fly them...whereas there's rumours of folk that enjoy it..)

I've got a new bowl now. It's called 'These are all the bits I did have assembled'

..I think I'll go charge some lipos..

pgk

05-06-2008 10:33 PM

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Predator Gasser build

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