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Main Discussion > Helis vs. Planks at the field!
 
 
Red-Rx7
Senior Heliman
Location: Olathe, KS - USA

SpeedDemon370, stop trying to defend an illegal action.

It doesn't matter the intent, the means of doing, nor how clean or considerate you are. The bottom line is that it is still trespassing and illegal. The morality of the issue cannot be argued, for it is what it is.

With that being said, you obviously feel that it is an acceptable risk to benefit yourself. No need to throw all of this extra crap in about being polite or a way to make new friends - whatever. It is what it is. An illegal act by nature, in which you believe the risk is low enough with minimal overall impact that ultimately benefits yourself.

An analogy can be made to speeding. I recognize that the speed limit is 70 MPH on interstate I35. I often drive at the speed of 75 MPH every day. I make no excuses for it. It is illegal. It is morally wrong based on me breaking the law. Yet, I don't try to mask the issue and say that I wave or wink at people and make sure I use my blinker so I am the "nice speeder".
04-26-2008 07:00 PM
 
 
Cowjock
Senior Heliman
Location: Collegeville, Pa.

Well said Mutt.

The problem with todays world is people think that they are "ENTITLED" and laws don't apply!!! WRONG they do apply.

Quote 
biggest thing here is common sense

vsnyder8 you are absolutely correct.

I have some very good neighbors that I get along with but it's the other one or two that believe(another example) that taking cornstalks at Halloween for decoration is ok. I would gladly give them cornstalks if they came and ask but they DON'T!!!! Hmm, trespassing and theft. Whats wrong with that picture?

I don't tolerate trespassing, I used to just chase them off but not any more. I have enough trouble dealing with my business and I don't need any more hassles to deal with.

Damn that ground is hard!
04-26-2008 07:03 PM
 
 
Red-Rx7
Senior Heliman
Location: Olathe, KS - USA

Quote 
Quote 
lv2fly15
i think people should just fly where they want to
Mutt
.... How would you like it if I just showed up at your house and decided to kick back and catch some rays in your front yard and say servive my truck? ....

He wouldn't understand yet, as he doesn't own any property. He still lives with his parents.

Do not get me wrong, nothing is wrong with that what-so-ever. Yet, when you actually get out of school and work to own property your outlook changes on things. While I bet Luke understands this concept to a point (imagine some bully coming up and just destroyed his 450); but things are in a different perspective as you mature.
04-26-2008 07:05 PM
 
 
Cowjock
Senior Heliman
Location: Collegeville, Pa.

Quote 
i think people should just fly where they want to . No one is going to listen to anyone off the computer telling them where not to fly,, live and learn.

Iv2fly15 my son had the same thoughts when he was your age and he couldn't figure out my thoughts on trespassing he's now approaching 20 and has some real life experience. He is now on my side. He has seen what I have had to deal with in the last years with trespassers and it's not been pretty. I think you need to do some growing up.

Damn that ground is hard!
04-26-2008 07:25 PM
 
 
Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

Quote 
Well said Mutt.
Thank you.
One day when and if these people ever own land they will maybe understand untill then and untill they mature and realize the world dont revolve around them they will never understand or get it.
04-26-2008 07:33 PM
 
 
tweekie1
Heliman
Location: indiana

trespassing

I'm just wondering if it would be considerd trespassing if say a guy on a hang glider or something like that flew over your property. Would this be any differnt than an r/c heli/plane as long as it did not land on your property? If it did land on your property could you keep it?

tweekie1
04-26-2008 09:37 PM
 
 
Dave M
Senior Heliman
Location: Mi.

The pilot would be liable for any and all damages.

It's OK....It's not your fault !!!
04-26-2008 10:00 PM
 
 
Red-Rx7
Senior Heliman
Location: Olathe, KS - USA

http://compuserb.com/trespass_def.htm

Criminal trespass. Criminal trespass is entering or remaining upon or in any land, structure, vehicle, aircraft or watercraft by one who knows he is not authorized or privileged to do so; and (a) He enters or remains therein in defiance of an order not to enter or to leave such premises or property personally communicated to him by the owner thereof or other authorized person; or (b) Such premises or property are posted in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, or are fenced or otherwise enclosed. See also Criminal.

Trespass to land. At common law, every unauthorized and direct breach of the boundaries of another's land was an actionable trespass. It is a wrong against one who has this right to possession, not necessarily against the person who has title but no immediate right to possession. No intent to commit a trespass was required. All that was necessary was that the act resulting in the trespass be volitional, and that the resulting trespass be direct and immediate. Nor did actual damage need be shown. Any trespass justified at least nominal damages. The present prevailing position of the courts, and Restatement of Torts, finds liability for trespass only in the case of intentional intrusion, or negligence, or some "abnormally dangerous activity" on the part of the defendant. Restatement, Second, Torts, § 166. See Zimmer v. Stephenson, 66 Wash.2d 477, 403 P.2d 343. Compare Nuisance.

Intrusions upon, beneath, and above surface of land. (1) Except as stated in Subsection (2), a trespass may be committed on, beneath, or above the surface of the earth. (2) Flight by aircraft in the air space above the land of another is a trespass if, but only if, (a) it enters into the immediate reaches of the air space next to the land, and (b) it interferes substantially with the other's use and enjoyment of his land. Restatement, Second, Torts, § 159.
04-26-2008 10:04 PM
 
 
Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

Air space is not owned by the land owner but they can put a stop to a rc plane or heli being flown over thier property. That is not called trespassing if your say flying off your land or have permission to fly but you fly over my land I can have you stoped from flying over the property I cant have you stopped from flying over your/permission land. If your plane or heli lands on my land which you have no permission to be on I can keep it but I wouldnt jut come and tell me your plane is in my field I will get it myself.
04-26-2008 10:05 PM
 
 
ch-47c
Senior Heliman
Location: san jose, ca

As much as private property rights is interesting, how about some more stories of Helis vs. Planks at the field.
04-26-2008 10:29 PM
 
 
sinte
Senior Heliman
Location: tacoma,WA

hotdamm!!!! therz a plane on my propiteeee!!!....reeleese da howndzzz!!!

.....97% Adrenaline...3% Skill.....
04-26-2008 10:53 PM
 
 
speeddemon370
Veteran
Location: Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada

I have a friend who is a detective for the eps (edmonton police service) and I mentioned this ongoing debate to him over beers today. He said that when police officers get calls to arrest some "trespasser" for walking his dog in an open field they roll thier eyes and unwillfully oblige. All the while making comments about why some XXXXXXX dosen't have anything better to do and "why is this his biggest problem". They pay lip service to said XXXXXXX and guage whether an arrest or even a charge is necessary on a case by case basis with the aformentioned "crime" regularly going unpunished. The previously mentiond "lawbreaker" is rarely given more than a ride home and a warning about people like that. Followed by a reccomendation for encountering less anal people. Apparently a police officers time is better spent dealing with criminals and actual problems. Huh, imagine that. I guess if I was to take your side of the argument I could roast buddy for doing 75. "what gives you the right blah blah blah". I'm not defending anything. Stop trying to change the subject.
I will concede defeat if you can put forth a reasonable argument without changing the subject. Oh you're going to piss and moan about how you're not changing the subject, well then please explain this and only this.
We're talking about flying a heli or a plane over an empty, unfenced, unoccupied field. Not freshly seeded, not full of cows or corn or any other s#!t you guys are going to come up with next. Just empty meadow. If your point is so valid WHY must you constantly imply escalation. Bully wrecking 450. Tractors, dirtbikes, atv's, suntanning in the front lawn (cause that's the same thing! Man you are one dumb mutt. How many times do you have to hear "THATS NOT THE SAME THING" before you stick to the debate at hand) stealing corn, doing service on your truck. Blah blah blah blah. If you have a valid point you should be able to make it within the confines of the argument at hand.
So, if you can't explain why you feel obligated to say these things about other irrelevant instances you should probably admit you're an XXXXXXX and you have nothing better to do than keep whining about trespassers who actually did cause damage and do something wrong. Somehow I got lumped in with those people. That's ok I guess, you know, cause we're all the same.
I don't recall mentioning or implying being "entitled" to do anything but once again you have to make things up to drive your point home. That's ok, if it helps you sleep better. At least it's an intersting twist. We're making up personality traits as opposed to past experiences regarding bad experiences with "trespassers".

On a side note has anyone ever argued with a pms'ing woman? When they change the subject on you and bring up stuff that happend years ago with completely different people. Somehow it's suddenly YOUR fault and there is absolutely no way to talk sense to this person. Hmmmmm, that sounds kind of familiar dosen't it?

with 2 ears and 1 mouth you should listen twice as much as you talk
04-27-2008 12:43 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
sinte
Senior Heliman
Location: tacoma,WA

whip it good...

.....97% Adrenaline...3% Skill.....
04-27-2008 01:10 AM
 
 
Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

only asshole I see speeddemon is you and also dont send me anymore pms whining about other people I could careless if it is heliman08 or not. As far as your cop buddy sounds like a typical jackass not wanting to do his job Here the cops take trespassing for a serious issue.
04-27-2008 01:19 AM
 
 
speeddemon370
Veteran
Location: Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada

Awwwww, I think I made the wittle doggy gwumpy.

with 2 ears and 1 mouth you should listen twice as much as you talk
04-27-2008 02:27 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ch-47c
Senior Heliman
Location: san jose, ca

<< He said that when police officers get calls to arrest some "trespasser" for walking his dog in an open field they roll thier eyes and unwillfully oblige. All the while making comments about why some asshole dosen't have anything better to do and "why is this his biggest problem".>>

Maybe they are busy eating donuts?
Do Cnandian police like donuts like American police?
04-27-2008 02:39 AM
 
 
speeddemon370
Veteran
Location: Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada

To the best of my knowledge........ yes they do.

with 2 ears and 1 mouth you should listen twice as much as you talk
04-27-2008 02:50 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
vsnyder8
Veteran
Location: Ft Wayne, IN

I guess it was your turn in the barrel so to speak. I got hazed about a year ago, I made a comment about how it is more relaxing to fly my blade cp over the street in my neighborhood then my Trex. I mentioned there are kids on the street sometimes, I didn't think it necessary to point out I do watch for them and land if they are coming close but if the worst thing happened and a blade cp went rogue it wouldn't kill anyone. I was all but labeled a maniac attacking children with my heli and trying to kill them.

Some people push a point, I assume your local is a little different then theirs, maybe less crowded or fewer destructive people making everyone else nervous. Everyone needs to use common sense and every situation is different.

If my neighborhood was having a lot of burglaries I would advise my children to not cut between houses to get to a friends or to the park for any reason, but if I lived in a "Leave it to Beaver" type place I wouldn't be concerned about it. My point being, maybe where Mutt and Jock live you wouldn't stop and fly at an open meadow. None of us here know better then you what your neighborhood is like, if people do not take offense to someone doing none destructive trespass then have fun.

I guess it is no wonder heli and planks can't get along, we heli fliers can't even agree on simple things. And please don't point out how I would feel about someone coming onto my property, I have a basketball hoop out front and neighbor kids have stopped and shot a couple shots with their basketball when going by. There is a point I would be concerned, if several stopped in and played for awhile I would want to know why. But we are not talking about stopping at a farmers meadow and having a fun fly with the whole club, or even using their front yard to fly around them or their house.
04-27-2008 03:26 AM
 
 
SpottedCow
Senior Heliman
Location: Whetstone, Arizona

The flying field should have "Safety Officers" who take charge in situations like this. Also I assume neither of you were using a "Spotter"... we are all guilty of this, but we should use spotters. Their job is to tell you where other flyers are to help avoid an incident.

I also find it a matter of respect for other flyers. Models are getting more expensive these days. I try to fly the heli when there are no or few planks in the air.. and if there are planks I try to fly circuits, rather than hover over the field in their potential path. Fortunately our field does have a 'hover' spot out of the normal runway path for those activities.

So give respect and let the planks fly their routine... then ask them to give you respect allowing you to fly your routine. ... and BTW.. if your club even thinks about banning Heli's.. report it to the AMA.. I am sure they have a strict policy against that.. and let your club officers know their AMA sanction may be revoked by their actions.
04-27-2008 05:40 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

AMA can't stop a club from banning helis it does not have a governing force over clubs just basicly a insurance company is all they are.
04-27-2008 06:08 AM
 
 
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