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Antiques or Out of Business > Kyosho Concept 30 DX

Dustinblessman
Heliman
Location: Des Moines IA USA

This thing needs a little love and the right owner.
Thinking of selling. Any ideas on how much?

Watch it run at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys9oaE0upYU

Needs blades,1 small rod linkage,bearings and nyolon nuts for tail grips.

Its been sitting since 1989. Gears are almost like new.

04-22-2008 04:52 AM

heli_headcase
Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

Ahh...One of my favorite heli's

Don't need any more Concept 30s here but maybe this thread bump will help you. Good luck.

HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

04-22-2008 06:43 PM

jczankl
Senior Heliman
Location: Anderson, IN USA

Heck yeah looks and sounds good! Hopefully this will help.

Team Cajun Helicopters,Team Futaba,WildCat Fuels,V-Blades,Duralite Batteries,Zurich,Vel-Tye,

04-27-2008 03:01 PM

HOMEPAGE

PilotDaz
Senior Heliman
Location: Seattle, WA

That sure brings back memories!

~There are two kinds of heli pilots: those that have crashed, and those who are about to.

04-27-2008 03:25 PM

orlee008
Veteran
Location: Miami, FL USA

theres a few for sale on ebay right now... average $300 with a couple more days to go...

clean it up good. take some nice detailed pics and post it on ebay when there are no more concept for sale (in a couple days). it will help your sale if you wait...

im sure you will get over $350 for it if you market it right.

Flying in Miami, FL (Kendall Area)

04-28-2008 12:36 AM

Dustinblessman
Heliman
Location: Des Moines IA USA

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. I am now starting to think that maybe I should at least fly it. Does any one know what kind of REVO settings you would need on a DX7?The gyro is motorized FP G154.
What kind of percentage should I start out with for the Up and Down?

It has an OS Max .32

heliphotagraphy

04-28-2008 03:55 AM

1stPlace
Senior Heliman
Location: Ohio USA

I've got a new in the box set of 515mm wood Helimax blades for the DX. They're ARF blades, with factory applied white, red, yellow and black trim. and I'll sell them for $35.00 shipped.

PM me if interested.
Doug

Hat man dir mal ins Gehirn geschissen und vergessen umzuruhren?

04-28-2008 07:27 PM

heli_headcase
Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

Here's some suggestions...

Quote
What kind of percentage should I start out with for the Up and Down?

First make sure the tail servo can overdrive the tail pitch system both directions when the collective stick is centered and full tail command is given. Don't worry, in flight the gyro will remove this input and binding of the linkage is impossible.

With the collective stick centered (hover collective pitch), adjust the tail pitch for a spacing between the folded tail blades of around 3/4 to 1 inch at their tips. Pulling on the tail pushrod should increase this gap.

Set the UP revo to about 30-40%, down will depend on a few things but generally the tail pitch should go completely flat when the collective stick is bottomed and engine is at idle. At full collective pitch I would check to see if the tail binds and if it does, reduce the UP mix a little.

Go fly and fine tune as needed. If the nose moves right while climbing, back off the UP mix. If the nose moves left, increase UP mix. Rotorhead speed should be around 1800RPM for best response but 2200 is even better! Shoot for 1600-1800 for initial testing and stability. The tail pitch settings will be very sensitive to head speed adjustments if hands-off trim is important.

Good luck!

HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

04-28-2008 09:26 PM

orlee008
Veteran
Location: Miami, FL USA

dont fly it... parts are not available anymore!

[Quote]
Rotorhead speed should be around 1800RPM for best response but 2200 is even better!
[End Quote]

remember this isnt a modern heli. that head speed will destroy this heli... poor llittle thing.. this is why Dustinblessman posted in the Antiques or Out of Business

the Concept wasnt designed as a 3D capable heli,at all... maybe a loop or roll but i wouldnt even attempt that.

just clean it up and sell it and make some money for your current birds.

orlee

Flying in Miami, FL (Kendall Area)

04-28-2008 11:20 PM

1stPlace
Senior Heliman
Location: Ohio USA

Quote
Thinking of selling. Any ideas on how much?

I sold mine on eBay about two years ago. It was sold as a complete RTF package with a Futaba 6Ch. Conquest PCM heli radio, starter & battery, glow igniter, training gear, spares, tools, ect... I completely disassembled it first, and replaced every wear part, then I installed new batteries in the radio and flew the heli just to make sure everything was truly RTF. Condition was a 9.5 out of 10. It sold for $460.00. To me, it was hardly worth selling.

I should have just hung it up as a display piece.

Quote

Quote
Rotorhead speed should be around 1800RPM for best response but 2200 is even better!

remember this isnt a modern heli. that head speed will destroy this heli.

You're absolutely correct Orlee! The head speed should only be 1500 in normal and no more than 1750 in idle up.

The Concept s a difficult heli to fly by todays standards. But, it looped, rolled and flew inverted very nicely. Remember, Tic-Tocs hadn't even been thought of when that heli was produced. You can't 3D it. It will fail in flight, if 3D maneuvers are attempted!

Hat man dir mal ins Gehirn geschissen und vergessen umzuruhren?

04-29-2008 12:02 AM

heli_headcase
Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

I beg to differ...

I was a Kyosho field rep in the mid 90's to early 2000's. Concept 30's and other models were my specialty. They can handle up to 2300RPM if certain rules are followed and would do any maneuver you could throw at it.

I suggested a lower RPM, did you notice? The higher revs are only for pilots that know how to set up the Concept for those conditions and have access to main blades of 80g each or less. But the flapping head does fly best if spun faster and will do wonderful aerobatics. Slowing the head gives superbly comfortable hovering and slow flight qualities too. You trim the head speed for the type of flying you want to do and the ability to change the heli's character just by varying the head speed is a unique property of the Concept series. Other heli's with fixed stiffness flapping dampers simply can't be tuned with RPM. The DX though is slowed (cyclically) by its heavy flybar paddles so those would be the first things needing replacement if snappier response was desired.

And to say "The Concept s a difficult heli to fly by todays standards." is silly. It's all in the setup, period. There's nothing about the C30 series that makes it harder to fly than a "modern" heli. The Concept is SO easy to fly, it's the one helicopter I've stated that I could fly with my eyes closed if I wasn't concerned about being smacked with a rotorblade.

Limited parts availability is the only factor that makes one have to decide to fly or display. If you're patient, anything can be located to support the heli. If anyone needs help with Concept setup, just ask. I'll try to be available.

I had to step in here and defend what was (and still is) my favorite R/C heli.

HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

04-29-2008 12:19 AM

1stPlace
Senior Heliman
Location: Ohio USA

Quote
They can handle up to 2300RPM if certain rules are followed and would do any maneuver you could throw at it.

This thread is about a Concept DX, not the Concept 30SR-X. The later SR's were vastly superior to the DX, and easier to fly too! The DX had 515's on them. On a 6.5 Lb. helicopter, that simply isn't enough blade area for 3D flight. Nor, were they capable of +12/-12 pitch. If I remember correctly, they were only capable of about +13/-8

Quote
And to say "The Concept s a difficult heli to fly by todays standards." is silly.

I have been flying heli's since before Kyosho ever built one, but not as long as you have. The difficulty in flying a Concept DX comes from small blades, a heavy frame, slow servo's, a tiny tail drive wire that flexes, a rate gyro, and lack of programmable radio. Obviously, a modern radio and gyro would help. But, they weren't available in 1989.

Quote
It's all in the setup, period. There's nothing about the C30 series that makes it harder to fly than a "modern" heli.

That's just not true. A Century Hawk or a Raptor is far easier to set up and fly than the pre-SR Concept. There's a reason that today's .30's run 550's, not 515's. One of the problems with the Concpet DX was the blade grips. There never were any good blades produced to fit the grips. You were stuck with little blades, or building your own from scratch.

Please quit acting like I'm bad mouthing Concepts. I'm not! I am acknowledging that they are antiques and do not fly like a modern heli. For you to say otherwise, is just wrong.

Hat man dir mal ins Gehirn geschissen und vergessen umzuruhren?

04-29-2008 12:46 AM

heli_headcase
Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

Oh boy, this is going to get very drawn out if I let it. We'll be battling these points forever.

I'll clarify a few things and then drop it. I don't have the time to waste arguing about what I know is correct via my experiences.

As to blades for the DX - the original blades are 495mm. The 515mm blades are for any SR series heli. 500mm blades are OK on the DX, SE and SX and NHP made some carbons that were the best. The two-piece grips of the DX have a gap of 8mm, not easy to fill with what's available today. Century made the best wood blades, the Ninja series, weighed around 73-75g finished, and worked great. Ninja II were too heavy at 101g for the set I flew. Ripped a grip apart at 2300RPM. The only grip failure I ever experienced with a Kyosho machine.

Oh, the DX was around 5.5lbs RTF, not 6+. It was easier to "fly" than the SR et-al as it was more layed-back in its handling style. The Sr-X was the king of fast and wild manuovors (spell check isn't helping!) but the earlier series could do just as well if small changes were made.

I'll not discuss flying qualities with you as again, it's all in the setup and you refuse to see this. Not withstanding the effort required to build the heli, it flew the best of any training machine. There are tricks to making the early Concepts reliable and they cost almost nothing. A change in the paddles and shortening the Hiller lever did the trick for livening the heli up for more spirited flying.

So with that said, if anyone needs help with the setup, ask. If they want to argue subjective thoughts on which is better or not, I'll not waste any more time. I have old heli's to prep for IRCHA!

HHC

So many heli's - too little time...

04-29-2008 01:20 AM

v22chap
Senior Heliman
Location: Howe, Indiana

I agree with heliheadcase ...
I flew all of the concepts and didn't have number one problem like you talk about with any of them .The DX setup according to the manual flew ,,, maybe not as good as todays standards but then they only wanted 1500 to 1600 head speed on them at that time .
Like helihead said ,,,put the head speed up and it would do all sorts of neat aerobatics for back then ... and that is a DX !!!

As far as 3-D goes .....who cares ..... 3- D is not helicopter flying and back in the DX days no one was even thinking about 3-D
and I say they shouldn't be even thinking about it today ... it looks stupid ,silly and nothing like a helicopter ... if you want to flop around like a chicken with your head cut off ..then fly an airplane

I disagree that a hawk or raptor is easier to setup than the DX ... there was no making sure the mixer arms are level at mid stick ,,,etc.... just measure the links and put it there and it was setup ,,,, how much easier do you want it????

And yes there was the problem with no computer radios to set the pitch and throttle curves,,, but we used large wheels on the servos and made them work with differentail throws to get the curve to be different ... it did take a little time to do this but once you learned how ,,it was really quite simple and quick to do .

Some people would have trouble with an updated ...blinged out Excell ....and some would have to modify it to fly all the more stable ..... if you started to fly helis when we did ..you would be happy with what the company put out to start out with .

My 2 cents and my flame suit on and this thread is unsubscribed by me too heliheadcase

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

04-29-2008 02:23 AM

HOMEPAGE

1stPlace
Senior Heliman
Location: Ohio USA

Quote
I agree with heliheadcase ...

And then you say:

Quote
maybe not as good as todays standards but then they only wanted 1500 to 1600 head speed on them at that time . Like helihead said ,,,put the head speed up and it would do all sorts of neat aerobatics for back then ... and that is a DX !!!

In other words:

Quote
The Concept s a difficult heli to fly by todays standards. But, it looped, rolled and flew inverted very nicely. Remember, Tic-Tocs hadn't even been thought of when that heli was produced.

We are basically saying the same thing.

You guys are acting like I am bad mouthing your helis and making personal attacks.

Heli-Headcase,
Show me a video of a Concept SE or DX doing 3D and I might change my opinion. But, I owned my DX for over a decade and taught several pilots to fly with it. It was crashed many times, and I rebuilt it every time. The DX is not now, and never was a 3D helicopter, regardless of set up.

My DX weighed 6 Lbs and 5 Oz RTF. I don't know where your getting the 5.5 Lbs.

Quote
My 2 cents and my flame suit on and this thread is unsubscribed by me too heliheadcase

What a WIMP!

Hat man dir mal ins Gehirn geschissen und vergessen umzuruhren?

04-29-2008 02:44 AM

Dustinblessman
Heliman
Location: Des Moines IA USA

Thanks for all your help.

After reading the controversy on how much the DX weighs I put it on a digital scale. Mine is sitting just under 5.5 with no fuel

Im really excited about getting this bird up. Ive inpected all the conponets and its looking pretty good.

The motor runs great.Its all programed and ready to go.

The only problem I have is the nyolon guide that the swashplate fits over. It goes down into the bearing at the top of the frame. This part is quite a bit off. It guides the main shaft sends shakes through out the whole helicopter. I just discovered this today when doing some extensive testing.Main shaft isnt bent in fact this is pretty much a brand new helicopter that has sat for the last 19 years.

This little issue might just delay me alittle on my new found project.

I really appreciate all your input. It is encouraging.

heliphotagraphy

04-29-2008 04:33 AM

1stPlace
Senior Heliman
Location: Ohio USA

Well Dustin,
I guess mine was just heavy... I did have old heavy equipment in it, as well as a header and tuned pipe. Still, it was a good flying heli. Best of luck with yours!

Doug

Hat man dir mal ins Gehirn geschissen und vergessen umzuruhren?

04-29-2008 01:18 PM

Dustinblessman
Heliman
Location: Des Moines IA USA

Thanks Doug
I cant wait. Its been a childhood dream to fly this thing.

heliphotagraphy

04-29-2008 03:20 PM

nivlek
Elite Veteran
Location: Norfolk England

I learned on a DX .

Its plastic clutch didn't last long , nor did its plastic starter cone .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

04-29-2008 05:25 PM

gian
Senior Heliman
Location: AZ

Bling! Start cone issue solved...