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Vario Sky Fox - Benzin - Evolution - Xtreme > Benzin Trainer Advice
 
 
puneetp
Heliman
Location: Bangalore, India

Folks I am new to Vario world and have these questions . I plan to use Benzin Trainer for Aerial Filming Purpose and need to lift heavy weight of 14lb safely.

What setup you recommend will be able to do it for Benzin Trainer


a) Choice of Engine ? ( example daves motors , please mention model )
b) Choice of Blades ? (800mm,810mm etc )
c) What is max Blade size that trainer can take ? Is there a strech kit available ?

Thanks
Puneet

Machine over Gravity
04-09-2008 12:39 PM
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Disciple4123
Veteran
Location: Waynesboro, VA USA

I run an Acrobatic with the same gear ratio as the Trainer 9.09:1 (basically can be considered a trainer for this. I use #427 blades which are 820mm long and wide chord, non-symmetrical. The blades are a little longer than stock, and do not risk striking TR components. For an otherwise stock trainer the #427's may be your most lift-capable blades that will fit.

If you are looking to like 14LBS regularly, maybe consider the XLV. It is set up with more substantial parts for lifting and very efficient gearing as well. Available as a gas G230/260 version, or a turbine.

My Acrobatic was flying at 28-29LBS total weight when I was running twin engines, it was a bit heavier than I felt would be tolerable in the long run. You may end up going thru head dampeners, bearings, stripping the main gear, overheating the engine, etc.

As far as engines, I run stock a RC230. A special version of a RC260 may lift your payload easier, but the 260 will seize easier too: I also feel that carrying 14LBS in hot (climate) India may not be the best choice with an overloaded gasser.

Puneetp, I've seen your posts previously, what operational level are you at now? Do you have flight time in a photography capacity, any experience with autopilots? It is a lot to jump into to try to fly a heavy video platform early on, heck I've been at it 4 years and I don't do video work

Eric
04-09-2008 02:33 PM
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RobRoy
Key Veteran
Location: Huntsville, Alabama

The stock benzine trainer with a G230 motor and vario 810 blades will lift 14Lbs all day with no problems. I've flown them with 15lbs in electronics/camera/cameramount for hundreds of hours, with no issues. All in all I've found the trainer to behave better with a little weight added. Rest assured 14lbs will be no problem. That being said however, I would choose the acorbat over the benzine trainer. The acrobat airframe just seems a little more robust to me.

Ignorance is curable, stupidity is for life.
04-09-2008 02:52 PM
 
 
Christopher J
Key Veteran
Location: Kansas City, MO Californian lost in land of Oz

The Benzin Trainer or Acrobat will work well and should have no problems lifting 14lbs. I've been flying a couple off and on for an AP company. With the stock 230RC and symetrical 800mm blades there have been no problems with an all up flying weight of 23+ lbs and plenty of power in reserve.

Christopher J
East Coast Vario Field Rep
"I'm all set"
04-10-2008 07:05 AM
 
 
puneetp
Heliman
Location: Bangalore, India

Disciple4123: I don't have experience with good autpilots but surely will put helicommand profi once I generate enough funds. XLV is a great choice sure , did you happen to use one ?


Great set of replies thanks folks. From this I am quiet convinced that Trainer or Aerobatic both will be able to serve the purpose.

Queries:

a) Difference between Trainer and Aerobatic: please can you list the difference or point me to a link. Also why I should one choose a trainer over aerobatic or visa versa for commercial AP/AV application .

b) Design Upgrades : Has Vario done any design changes to the models over the period of last couple of years, correct me if I am mistaken but Benzin trainer has been around for a very long time I guess more than 6 years.

- Puneet

Machine over Gravity
04-12-2008 09:10 AM
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puneetp
Heliman
Location: Bangalore, India

Do you know what is the air star modification is I went on there site but couldn't really figure out what changes

c) what modifications they are doing to make the trainer better ?

d) Do you see any issues with the Trainer ? I have never hear anybody talking anything negative.

e) What engine you recommend for the Trainer or Aerobatic and why( I mentioned application in 1stPost )

Thanks,
Puneet

Machine over Gravity
04-12-2008 09:14 AM
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Disciple4123
Veteran
Location: Waynesboro, VA USA

Acrobatic: 12mm mainshaft 25mm tailboom, fuel tank at centre of gravity, simplified frame layout with direct controls 7.49 gear ratio, comes with #422 blades.

Trainer: 10mm mainshaft, 20mm tailboom, fuel tank up front, controls use bellcranks and servos up front. 9.09:1 gear ratio, comes with #421 blades.

The gear ratio and blades are changeable on either machine, #421, or #427 blades and 9.09 ratio would be preferred for your needs.

So technologically the Acrobatic is superior if you ask me. The trainer has enough similarity to the Acro, and the same high quality, so some people use it for AP. I have an Acrobatic with 1 1/2 years of service, have also had a predator and a Bergen in years prior. My vote amongst them is for the Acrobatic.

Regarding the air star deal, I will PM you my feelings on that/him.

I personally consider 14LBS to be carryable on the Acrobatic, set up right, yes it is ( I have done it for a while). But if you consider long term reliability, the ability to log hundreds of flight hours in a hot country, with minimal risk of power loss or a settling with power phenomenon, then the XLV, possibly with a turbine would be an extra layer of safety. Maybe start with an Acrobatic, and if funds develop go XLV in a couple of years??

What engine: the 230RC is very smooth, the 260RC is only as smooth when a machine shop lightens it's piston. Either way the dynamics of the 260's permit the engine to seize a little easier than the 230 which is rather hard to lock up in flight (clearances are the same, but the larger diameter piston expands more proportionally when at operating temperature). I run 230's. People have fair results with either. I have had 260PUH machines in years past with varied results, including lock ups.

Eric
04-12-2008 12:09 PM
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FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Malaysia

What you don't get with the Acrobatic is the rather excellent CSS head as I believe it is only available for 10mm main shafts? This head is a real improvement over the old standard Benzine head in my opinion. Maybe Vario are working on a 12mm version - they should be as it would work well on the Acrobatic.

Paul.
04-12-2008 02:42 PM
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Christopher J
Key Veteran
Location: Kansas City, MO Californian lost in land of Oz

The CSS head is definately nice, that is one of the changes to the Benzin Trainer. Another change from the older model is the servo tray is now nice and compact, just big enough to hold 4 servos and the big bulky wood radio tray has now been replaced in recent years with the plastic radio tray like the one found on the Sky Fox line. Lastly the canopy is bigger and very nice with a carbon windscreen.

Christopher J
East Coast Vario Field Rep
"I'm all set"
04-13-2008 05:45 AM
 
 
puneetp
Heliman
Location: Bangalore, India

Again, this information was very useful..appreciate detailed response.

Thanks
Puneet

Machine over Gravity
04-19-2008 07:20 PM
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Vario Sky Fox - Benzin - Evolution - Xtreme > Benzin Trainer Advice
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