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Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies . MRC/Altech Marketing USA

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Radio - Futaba FASST > FASST antenna placement?
 
 
MEDFLIGHT
Veteran
Location: South Webster, Ohio

As per the instructions, "If possible, please make sure the two antennas are placed at 90 degrees to each other. Please note: This is not a critical figure, however, the most important thing is to keep the antennas away from each other as much as possible."

Today I called Hobby Services and asked if the antennas could be placed at 180 degrees. He said they HAVE to be at 90. What do you believe?

I have two rx's installed in my 600n's and the antennas are at 90 degrees but I can still be in an oriention where neither rx is in line with the xmitter. I'm thinking if I put them at 180 degrees ( one out each side of the radio tray) that one or the other will always be in line with the xmitter. According to the instructions this wouldn't be a problem but H.S. says they have to be at 90 degrees. Does anyone have them at 180?
04-04-2008 05:06 AM
 
 
Red Machine
Senior Heliman
Location: Leeds - Yorkshire

My only comment would be that if it all works at the minute, why change it. I would assume that you have conducted a range check walking completely around the helicopter and all ok, so don't worry about it.

Vario Hughes 500 / Vario Turbine Lama / Vario EC155 / Synergy N9 / Blue Thunder
04-04-2008 09:55 AM
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

I always try to put it at 90 degrees so there is always an antenna pointing sideways at my tx. The worst possible position is when the antenna is pointing directly at you. on a 180 setup that will happen at 2 positions. On a 90 deg setup, it should never happen.




Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
04-04-2008 12:02 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

If you put the two antennas at 180 degrees, there is an obvious orientation in which both antennas are pointing at you. This gives the minimum signal strength and greatest probability of a lockout/failsafe. But if you never get more than a few hundred feet away, it won't matter. You will also get more lockouts if you point the TX antenna at the Heli which many people do while flying.

EDIT: Tony's installation is about as good as can be with the short antennas on FASST RX's.
04-04-2008 05:03 PM
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

Is it still OK that the antennas are turned from their exit point at the Rx and just the outer half of them is 90 degrees to each other ?

Tony, which tubes did you run the antennas in and how did you attach them to the frame ?

Team pilot for RJX, Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco
www.liorzahavi.com
04-04-2008 05:27 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rob_k
Senior Heliman
Location: Denver, CO

All 5 of mine are mounted similar to Tony's. Very easy to do on any heli and should minimize both antennae being in a position of minimum range. So far, so good.
04-04-2008 05:38 PM
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Thx for the comment

The tubing is standart antenna tubing cut to size. What matters is only the last 1 inch that is uncovered. the rest doesn't matter as is shielded.

I put a drop of ca to secure the tubes

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
04-04-2008 06:16 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FlyingDutchman2
Heliman
Location: Bjoneroa, Oppland, Norway

This is my setup of the antennas, never had an issue with it:)Just did what the instructions said, and it's working like a charme:D

04-04-2008 06:20 PM
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

Quote 
The tubing is standart antenna tubing cut to size. What matters is only the last 1 inch that is uncovered. the rest doesn't matter as is shielded.

Tony

Shielded ? can you explain this please?

Team pilot for RJX, Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco
www.liorzahavi.com
04-04-2008 06:58 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
simon_t
Heliman
Location: Herne Bay, Kent, England

The grey part of the antenna is the 'feeder' with only the silver part actually sensitive to the received signal - like your television where you have a feeder wire (co-ax) that plugs in to the back and goes all the way to the aerial. The co-ax does not pick up the signal, just carries it to the TV
04-04-2008 07:47 PM
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

I did not know that, thanks !

You learn new things every day i guess..

Team pilot for RJX, Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco
www.liorzahavi.com
04-04-2008 08:01 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

That gray wire is actually micro-coax with an inner conductor, clear teflon dielectric, and braided outer shield. At 1.3mm it is actually large micro-coax. As Simon said only the last 30mm is unshielded and is the antenna. The dielectric is still there and gives the wire some physical integrity.

Here is a scrap piece of Hirose 1.3mm micro-coax as used on the FASST receivers:

04-04-2008 08:10 PM
 
 
MEDFLIGHT
Veteran
Location: South Webster, Ohio

Mine looks more like FlyingDutchman2's. The range check was fine but I haven't been able to fly it because of the weather. I see the point about the antennas pointing directly at the xmitter. I'll probably try something like tchavei's.
04-05-2008 12:51 AM
 
 
haggy38
Senior Heliman
Location: Bogotá - Colombia

Hope this help.



Regards,
Gustavo
04-05-2008 12:52 AM
 
 
MEDFLIGHT
Veteran
Location: South Webster, Ohio

Thanks haggy. Leave it to me to make things harder than they have to be.
04-05-2008 01:24 AM
 
 
kcordell
Senior Heliman
Location: O Fallon, MO

Nick Maxwell has his 180 degrees on his Bandit 50 Nitro with no problems. One better than that, Andrew Jesky has been doing some testing in both plank and heli with the antenna tied in a knot! NO ISSUES (yet).

Team Futaba, Miniature Aircraft Pilot, YS Engines, VelTye
04-06-2008 01:42 AM
 
 
wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

I put a 2.4ghz 10mW video TX on my helicopter, and turned the TX power down to 10mW. Eventually I got a lockout at 30-40 yards when the horizontal antenna was side-on to me, and the vertical was shielded by the C/F frames. My TX antenna was vertical. If you turned the helicopter round 180 so the closest antenna was vertical, like the TX antenna, then the lockout condition ended, and the range increased dramatically.

The first moral of the story is that the FAAST connection is remarkably robust. I was sceptical that it would work at all with the video transmitter in situ, let alone work even when I reduced the TX power by a factor of 10.

The second moral of the story is that orientation can make a difference. As can shielding.

If people are getting away with poor setups, this is a testament to the basic reliability of the system - but it shouldn't be an encouragement to copy them.

Another two thoughts - digital systems can lockout, but even if they don't seem to glitch they are still subject to intererence. In the FAAST system, the latency increases as the transmission quality decreases. Secondly, I imagine (though I don't have this information to hand) that it might take an appreciable amount of time between loosing a signal and the failsafe kicking in. If you are doing a maneuver that involves motion - e.g. flying a figure of 8, then you might actually not notice if transmission was lost for a fraction of a second before being re-acquired. I don't think it's a coincidence that when I had my lockout I was hovering some distance away.

I had done fairly extensive range-checks before ever daring to fly with such a system. And I had checked the heli in different orientations. Seems I wasn't quite careful enough.

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
04-06-2008 02:03 AM
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Actually funny you mention latency.

The day when I had those wierd lockouts the bird wasn't acting normally. There was a very noticable delay between input and actual reaction during some maneuvers. I actually thought it was my brain playing tricks but then those full lockouts happen. I believe your absolutely right about orientation and the C/F frame "shielding" stuff. When one flies high and far away, there is always one "weak" orientation.

In my case that would be tail in with the nose 10 deg to the right. Its when the one of the antennas is pointing away and the other is shieled by the frames/engine/muffler

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
04-06-2008 02:08 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Update

Just wanted to let you guys know that I range tested the setup today (from my previous pic) and it gave me shocking 132 paces with the heli in the worst possible position (i.e. tail in 10 degrees nose to the left). I would have gotten more in other orientations. Instructions require 30 paces if I'm not mistaken,

Thats over twice as much from my previous configuration (i.e. the second antenna placed horizontally above the rx instead of vertically down)

I think I can trust this config now

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
04-07-2008 04:37 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Radio - Futaba FASST > FASST antenna placement?
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