RunRyder - Any flybarless setups?

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e-Minicopter Joker > Any flybarless setups?

ThomasJoehnk
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark, Copenhagen

Hi

I am about to upgrade my Joker II or my Mini Joker to a flybarless setup using the v-stabi unit (I will buy directly from Gerd).

Anyone have any experience with flybarless Jokers???

:-) Thomas

Two Joker II's, MiniJoker, Acrobat SE (and a full size 90.000 cubic foot hot air balloo

03-21-2008 10:22 AM

Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

flybarless 3dmpe..

I am finishing up a flybarless setup on my 3dmpe...

it's VERY easy to do...I will have it flying next week for sure...i'll let you know how it works then...here's what my head setup looks like though

03-21-2008 02:24 PM

cwd10
Veteran
Location: PA, - U.S.A.

No offense but, That's NOT the exact same head or blade grips as my Joker II, and I ussume all Joker II's ARE the same. I see quite a few differences actually, not including the flybarless attributes.

03-21-2008 04:05 PM

littleman
Key Veteran
Location: state college pa home of Penn State

Jag I don't know if your aware but Gerd developed a new head for a flybarless J2. He also has a conversion kit for the Mini-joker.
A.J.

Proud member of Teams Minicopter Acrobat and CYE
AIM minicopter3d with questions

03-21-2008 04:16 PM

HOMEPAGE

Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

COOL!

I didn't know that...

I used to have a joker 1 and the head was the same as my 3dmpe...well pretty much the same...

I'm not sure what differences there are between the joker 1 and joker 2 heads though...

I think the head blocks (on the 3dmpe & joker) and the grips are pretty much the same though?...and that's all that really matters when going flybarless...

03-21-2008 04:18 PM

rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

I have two stretched (710mm) Mini-Jokers that I converted to flybarless. Its very easy to modify the Mini-Joker head yourself or buy the upgrade parts from Gerd.

I'm using the Helicommand Rigid and Helicommand Profi for stability.

03-21-2008 05:05 PM

rroback
Key Veteran
Location: Irvine (UCI), Ca

I had a minijoker that was flybarless, and now have a flybarless maxi joker, using the rigid head. I've using a hc profi. I woudn't go for the v-stabi/v-bar. better to invest in the hc rigid, or profi, which have horizontal hold. The v-bar keeps the heli controllable, but doesn't have that feature ( I had it on my maxi, originally).

Rhett... There's no power like E Power!

03-21-2008 06:51 PM

John Tz
Senior Heliman
Location: Chicago, IL

What are you guys seeing as the benefit for the flybarless setup? Is it for scale applications?

03-21-2008 07:15 PM

rroback
Key Veteran
Location: Irvine (UCI), Ca

I like less parts on the head, to balance, and points of failure. slight flight time increase as well.

Rhett... There's no power like E Power!

03-21-2008 07:22 PM

Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

Flybarless...

For me it's all about the increase in power and less parts to worry about..

there's a power increase of 20-25% using a flybarless system...

ALSO...with VBAR the heli is MUCH more stable in windy conditions and the cyclics are MUCH faster...all good for 3d flying..

I think the Ap guys are using them for different reasons than me...

03-21-2008 07:34 PM

QueeQueg
Senior Heliman
Location: West Texas

Quote
there's a power increase of 20-25% using a flybarless system

I'm interested in doing a flybarless head too.

Has anyone documented that high of an increase.

I know there has to be some but that sounds a little optimistic?

Gerard

03-21-2008 07:54 PM

Jag72
Elite Veteran
Location: 20 minutes south of Boston Mass...

Flybarless

I'm not sure that anyone has documented it on paper...but the power increase is VERY substantial..

by removing all the mechanical mixing (flybar/washout etc) the whole head assembly rotates much more efficiently...

if you ever see a flybarless 3d machine there's no doubt in my mind that you'd see that the 20% gain is VERY real...

watch this vid...

this is an indicator..

http://vids.helistore.at/Logo600_3-2-08_Max.mov

03-21-2008 09:21 PM

rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

I know I lost 6.5oz in weight off the head gong flybarless. So I would have to think power/efficiency goes up.

You can see how easy the Mini-joker conversion is. I just made my own plates out of CF and cut an old Flybar down and spacers for the blade grips.

03-21-2008 09:28 PM

East Coast Scale
Key Veteran
Location: Taxachussetts

The loss of the weight is not as significant, as the loss of drag of the flybar and paddles are. This is where alot of the increase comes from.
Joe

03-21-2008 10:01 PM

rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Ah yes thats very true.

03-21-2008 11:52 PM

QueeQueg
Senior Heliman
Location: West Texas

I have no doubt there is a gain I've seen all the videos but 20% is a lot. I'm only hoping it's that high.

Nobody has shown any data measuring it yet and that's what it will take.

Rhett says a little increase in flight time on his AP ship and that doesn't really sound like a 20% increase in efficiency.

I'm going to do it no matter what to wake up the cyclic as the main reason.

I've been flying Jokers for 6 years now and love them. Smooth as can be but there a little slow on the cyclic and I'd love to get it livened up and a 20% would jsut be icing on the cake

Gerard.

03-22-2008 01:08 AM

rroback
Key Veteran
Location: Irvine (UCI), Ca

The reason I'm not seeing 20 percent gains in anything is because I'm not doing 3d, I'm flying ap. When doing ap, my paddles are barely deflecting, so there isn't a ton of extra drag. Doing 3d, you have huge deflections, so removing that makes a big difference. I see no reason to disagree with the idea of getting between 10-20 percent power increase doing 3d.

Rhett... There's no power like E Power!

03-22-2008 05:13 AM

QueeQueg
Senior Heliman
Location: West Texas

10% sounds reasonable 25% seems pretty high. If it would add an extra minute of hard core 3D to a 5 minute pack I'd be overwhelmed if not delighted.

I'm not doing it for that reason but it wouldn't hurt.

03-22-2008 05:24 AM

500Driver
Senior Heliman
Location: Columbus, OH

Where was that video filmed?

Beautiful spot!

Awesome flying too...

When in doubt...auto out

04-04-2008 12:23 AM

nooobs

Veteran - Location: Toronto, Canada -

Flew yesterday for the first time... I like what I see...

More flight test to come...