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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > FUTABA BLS-451 SERVO'S- GOOD OR BAD

JJMAN
Senior Heliman
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia - USA

The other thread was closed, but I'm not willing so willing to let the issue die. I have 3 of these servo's in my Trex 600N with about 40 flights on them with no problems what-so-ever. Up until reading about this issue in the last few days, I thought these to be the idea cyclic servo, they fly really well, setup nice, and are much better than the 9252's I replaced with them. No doubt, some are having problems and there is some kind of issue with them, that concerns me and I would like to know what the cause is.

I too bought these servo's upon the recommendations of several threads here and all availiable information that was on the web at the time, including Futaba's website. All the major heli webstores are selling them, with no mention of any heli related issues. Lots of folks are using this servo on there heli's.

So what is the issue? Those that post with experience with them please list the following:

1. What airframe are they on.
2. What radio gear are you using (Spektrum, PCM, PPM, etc.)
3. What is your regulated supplied operating voltage.
4. Are you having any problems, if so what, be specific.
5. What should be done about this.

I'll start:
1. Trex 600N
2. Spektrum 2.4 module in a 9303 with an AR7000 receiver
3. 5.3V from a duralite setup
4. No problems
5. I think Futaba needs to step up to the plate and take responsibility and either fix the fault or exchange for something that does work.

***I Like Jet Noise***

03-06-2008 11:53 PM

Knight Flight
Senior Heliman
Location: DeKalb, IL.

I have 6 of these servos, being winter here in the Chicago area I haven't flown them yet. They are installed in Knight 3D 50 sized helis. Futaba 12 channel FGH 2.4 radio.

I really like these servos and plan to use them. Will probably shake them out with some low/slow testing at first. All six have behaved well on the bench during set-up, this obviously doesn't tell me anything about their flight worthiness.

I would be interested to know what percentage of these things are exhibiting problems. They were selling like hotcakes when first released, continually sold out. There certainly must be a fairly good number of them in circulation by now.

Jay

03-07-2008 12:53 AM

HOMEPAGE

Raptile
Senior Heliman
Location: SLOVENIA-Logatec

They are good I will used them in Raptor90!
They works fine for me IMHO.

T-Rex450SE, Raptor 50, Raptor 90 & FUTABA user =)

03-07-2008 06:28 AM

turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

First off I have three of the BLS 451's in my Raptor 50 with a 9303 2.4. I have flown them maybe 10 times with no problems so far. Between the radio and the servos they have transformed my heli for the better.
I am now rather Pi$$ed off to read in another thread from a Futaba rep that they are NOT recommended for heli's as they don't have the centering ,bla bla bla,,,. I purchased these servos from reading about them here ,seeing them being sold by heli only websites and hobby shops that sell heli's and confirming in the Tower catalog and its flyers that they are recommended for use in heli's. They WERE recommended for heli's by everyone. NOW THEY ARE NOT and never have been according to Futaba!!!!!!
So I guess now according to FUTABA I have spent alot of money thinking I was getting a top of the line HELI SERVO and didn't. Now they say I didn't buy a heli servo,, and they would rather I didn't use them in a heli. This is crap. I feel potentially ripped off.
I'm sure Brushless servos will become common in the future ,and when they do I'm sticking to JR. This very poor communication between Futaba and the consumer.
I will think twice before buying any Futaba product again.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them

03-07-2008 03:46 PM

helislider
Heliman
Location: Lake Arrowhead,CA -USA

I had just received two 451,s and a 351 when I read that they were not recommended for heli use. After reading that futaba changed there web site when people where having problems with them in helis, I put them back in the box and returned them for 8717,s.

Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

03-07-2008 05:08 PM

Hirobofly
Heliman
Location: Horten, Norway

Hi.
Could somebody post a link to where Futaba officially says they are not for heli-use?

Thanx.

03-07-2008 07:11 PM

Ken Filloon
Senior Heliman
Location: Highland, Michigan

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t403687p1/

03-07-2008 07:53 PM

bbaxter
Heliman
Location: Central Illinois

We've done a lot of checking, and apparently, one of the tech sheets we received was mis-interpreted. I did a lot of checking and found that the Futaba BLS351 and BLS451 servos can be used in virtually any R/C application, as long as they have proper installation and power delivery.

If a servo glitches in a particular application, the first check should be to replace it and see if it's the servo. If a replacement, known good servo still glitches, then the application must be suspect. In helis, you need to make sure your linkages have zero play and that the power supply is sufficient. Remember, high-torque servos can consume a lot of power, especially digital brushless high-torque servos. If the power supply isn't sufficient, then erratic operation can occur.

Again, the Futaba BLS351 and BLS451 Digital Brushless servos can be used for virtually any hobby application the modeler desires.

Bill Baxter, Manager
Futaba Service Center North America
3002 N. Apollo Dr. Suite 1
Champaign IL 61822
USA

Phone: (217) 398-0007
Fax: (217) 398-7721
Email: service@futaba-rc.com
Web: http://www.futaba-rc.com/index.html

03-07-2008 08:00 PM

JJMAN
Senior Heliman
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia - USA

First, thank you Bill for responding.

Just to clarify, Futaba's stance is now that the BLS451 servo is now recommended for use in helicopters, with the proper installation, correct?

Because this represents a reversal of what was previously stated and information contained (currently) on the website.

***I Like Jet Noise***

03-07-2008 08:08 PM

Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

Quote
In helis, you need to make sure your linkages have zero play and that the power supply is sufficient. Remember, high-torque servos can consume a lot of power, especially digital brushless high-torque servos. If the power supply isn't sufficient, then erratic operation can occur.

Bax, your post mentions that a sufficient power supply is required twice, but does not specify what a sufficient power supply is. Can you please provide the technical specification for a sufficient power supply for use with BLS-451 servos?

03-07-2008 08:55 PM

turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

Mr Baxter

Thankyou for your responce Mr Baxter. This is good news for sure.
I do have one other question for you regarding what another Futaba rep stated ,specifically Krysta.

Quote
There is no "design problem" with these servos. They were made for use in cars that do not require the precise centering abilities that a helicopter needs. They work as they should in cars.

So does this mean I should have bought a different Futaba servo in this price range that has Better performance [centering in this case]for helicopters? If so what servo is better? Where did she get this info and is this true?
Below is the complete responce from Krysta from another thread. It was this that upset me on the purchase of these servos.
Thanks again for your responce.

BLS451 Glitching

hootowl,

Yes, I do work for the Futaba Service Center here in the US. And I guess you could call me an "offical rep", but I ONLY get on these forums in my SPARE TIME to try to answer questions from people who are needing help.

I answered this posting after discussing the question of these servos being used in helis with our Product Manager. Futaba DID design these servos for use in Cars. They recommend them for car use only. They list them as being compatiblefor airplanes and helis. Futaba knows that people are going to use these in ways that they are not recommended ( just as they did the S9351 when using it in airplanes ) and there is nothing they can do but list their own recommendations.

Our Team Futaba reps experiment constantly with product, that is one of the aspects of being a Team Futaba rep.

There is no "design problem" with these servos. They were made for use in cars that do not require the precise centering abilities that a helicopter needs. They work as they should in cars.

They MAY also work for some of you in any other application that you choose, but we cannot be certain of this. This is why they are listed only as compatible in other applications.

I am not backing down or hiding on this issue. I do not have the time to visit this site everyday, but had I known that a question I answered for a customer had escalated to this level, I would have gotten back here sooner.

I was told of the error on the website, I told the customer that I would have this fixed. I did so, and then it is questioned as to why I did it so fast???

As for the exact reason why these servos are not recommended for cars and not helis, we have contacted Japan to see if they can gvie us the specifics and will have to let you know when we hear back from them.

Also, no one at Hobbico or Great Planes has ever said that there would be an improved 14MZ manual coming out. We are not sure where this is coming from.

If you have these servos, you have installed them and they are working as you wish, you should be fine. If you are having glitching problems, please let us know at service@futaba-rc.com and we will take care of getting these back to be checked here at the service center.

Krysta
Futaba Service Center USA

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them

03-07-2008 09:50 PM

crazydave
Heliman
Location: Bedford MA USA

I have three and do plan on buying more. They don't use the ridiculous amount of current that the JR 8717s use. I get 4 flights on a 2100mah Lipo and still have half a pack left. They are very smooth center well and have one of the tightest gear trains I have ever seen. They are great servos for them money. Most places you can get them for $80-$90 a servo.

However I think the problem that got myself, and I am sure many others, worried was the the way that the reply came out. It wasn't an acknowledgment of a possible bad batch of servos that could have came off the line, but an insinuation that the servos were failing because of a use in an application that many people bought them for (also that they were spec'd for on many websites).

To answer the topic:

1. Hirobo Freya EVO-Spec
2. JR X9303 2.4
3. 6.3v Though 15amp MPI adj reg
4. No problems so far
5. I think Futaba should acknowledge the problem, test their current batch/ manufacturing process and replace any existing defective servos under warranty. Maybe even a serial number based recall.

Just my 2 cents

Dave

03-07-2008 10:53 PM

legoman67
Key Veteran
Location: Nanoose Bay B.C, Canada

i just got rid of mine.. to much money to just keep untill something goes wrong, chances are when something does go wrong you will have a really hard time selling, also you will be paying to repair your heli

i just got some 9451's now...

Matt M.
http://www.filepile.ca

03-08-2008 06:37 AM

HOMEPAGE

deafheliflyer
Veteran
Location: Arizona

I packed my BLS451 and shipped them back to Heliproz.. Id rather use 8717's and compensate for the high current in other ways..

Im with legoman on this.. I have too much invested in my helis for the "possiblity" that it fail because of a damn servo.

besides, 8717 with 1900 pack will get me 4 flights (many of my friends run this setup) so... That is enough for me and I can always get a second lipo pack if I want to put in more than 4 flights or just get a 2s 2500 pack.. No biggie.

Michael

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

03-08-2008 01:27 PM

MADTHREEDEEZ
Veteran
Location: Milmay, NJ

I have them in my Stratus and they perform flawlessly. I am flying a 14MZ and Using the new Duralite high current Lithium Manganese 3000 mah pack with high current 7 volt regulator. I know there is alot of guys out there who underestimate the importance of a STRONG power supply. If you have all the voltage and pack capacity in the world and it all gets to your receiver through one 24 gauge wire from your switch, do you really expect all your servos, your governor, gyro etc to pull all the current required through that one wire? With these new servos, loads are higher than ever on your entire power system. The duralite high current regulator has a 16 gauge output side with deans connectors that split to 2 seperate heavy duty receiver power supply leads that I believe are 22 gauge wire. There is some pics in my gallery of the setup on my stratus.

Danny Calderone.
*********************
Magnum Fuels

03-08-2008 09:54 PM

Ken Filloon
Senior Heliman
Location: Highland, Michigan

Im waiting for the new spektrum regulator.
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...ighlight=10+amp

03-08-2008 11:17 PM

Knight Flight
Senior Heliman
Location: DeKalb, IL.

I'm running switchless, with an ultra connector from the A123 2300 mah battery, to three male power connectors. Two are supplying the reciever, and one powers the gyro, and tail servo through a Radio South 5.1V regulator (small and light).

I gave this set-up a whole bunch of thought, doing a lot of research to come up with what I hope to be a very robust, reliable and safe power solution.

Jay

03-09-2008 12:42 AM

HOMEPAGE

turboomni
Elite Veteran
Location: 63 Rambler Down By The Dumpster

I don't think many of these guys are having problems because of power supply problems as they were gliching with very little to no load.

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly better than I can pilot them

03-09-2008 05:02 AM

MADTHREEDEEZ
Veteran
Location: Milmay, NJ

I dont know, like I said, just my thought. I could'nt be more impressed with them, they stay in my machine.

Danny Calderone.
*********************
Magnum Fuels

03-09-2008 05:16 AM

NEM3
Veteran
Location: New Lenox, Il

I don't know guys. This sounds exactly like the back pedalling that Ann Marie Cross did way back when they changed the specs on the 9252's. To be honest I am tired of all the deception and stories with hobby companies these days. And Futaba never seems to apologize. Just more of the same ol crap. Tell you what though. Anymore of this and I am switching over to JR. I have been a die hard Futaba guy for a long time. But the way that Futaba handles their customers is rediculous. Maybe when they start losing people left and right they'll get the picture. The name don't mean squat unless you can back it up with service. And so far JR has covered there back end with service when the poop hits the fan.

03-09-2008 07:02 AM

HOMEPAGE

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > FUTABA BLS-451 SERVO'S- GOOD OR BAD

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