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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

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QuickWorldWide Ep and Wet Fuel Helis > The 20cc Gasser arrival, build, and review
 
 
ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

Please continue, i want to read about your flights with it.

we can never have too many, can we ?
03-14-2008 05:30 AM
 
 
babadjide
Heliman
Location: FRANCE

Yes please go on ! Especialy about the fliying caracteristics.
03-14-2008 09:47 AM
 
 
JA Allen
Senior Heliman
Location: NYC

Eury,

I feel your pain. Just the mere direction of the post being highjacked distresses me.

Remember, this is a particular "niche" of pilot who pulls that crap. Most of us "in the know" support your review, as we are as curious as you are. So please, try to ignore the "very small" amount of negatives, and continue with your build in your allowed time frame.
You are not on a stop watch, it is understood it is at your leisure.

J.A.
03-17-2008 03:35 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

I'm going to work on it some more today and post more pics. I think I've made my point on the BS, and will see this through to the end.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-17-2008 04:49 PM
 
 
snobdrs
Senior Heliman
Location: coatesville,pa-usa

Quote 
I'm going to update this thread with pics and text as I go through the build, and after I'm done, I will edit everything together into a single post that will help people searching for info on the machine without having to dig through a long thread.

This should give us the quality review most of us are looking for. Any BS that gets added to this thread can be eliminated.
So far i have found this to be a good review, and i am using it as a guideline for my review of the Bat 50. Thank you Eury.

Support your local hobby shop
03-17-2008 05:07 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

I'm back, worked on it some more today, I've been very busy, I apologize for the amount of time it's taken.

I checked out the new tail drive bearing blocks and shaft that I mentioned I had been sent by QWW, and the new ones appear to be to spec, the bearings are centered, and the flat is on the shaft, as depicted in the instructions. Much better.

Also, I received a PM from a QWW employee regarding my post about the size of the body mounts. He checked the OD 20cc that they have in the showroom, and sure enough, it has 50mm mounts on it, same as what I have. He told me that the manual will be changed to reflect that, as it is a misprint.

Started in on the engine install, as well as the clutch. This is all preinstalled on the heli I have, but I'm going through it to check for fit and accuracy. This is out of sequence with the manual, as I am going taking pictures and going through fasteners etc fromt he top down on the engine. I'm not going to pull the fan assembly off, or do any major disassembly of the engine install, just check fasteners for tightness/locktite, and the assemblies for fit and correct assembly.

First impression of the clutch assembly is that it's heavy duty! The outer edge where it engages with the liner is nice and thick, and appears quite strong, and it has removable weights inside it to adjust the engagement point. Very cool, I've never had the desire to change the engagement point of a clutch, but if I wanted to, it could be adjusted with this setup. Nice design, I'm impressed. Good job on that QWW!



Next I wanted to touch on the engine itself. Most gas powered helicopters out there use the G231PUH, G260PUH, or some variation of that theme. Those engines have a magneto ignition that works well, but has some real disadvantages. The timing is fixed, so it is only going to perform ideally at a certain RPM range, starting can be a bit more difficult (although certainly not hard), and they require a heavy flywheel. Their big advantage is that they are simple, inexpensive, and tough. Same tech you've got in your weedeater, and chainsaw.

The G20ei that the OD 20cc uses uses an electronic ignition, like most high end gas motors today. The electronic ignition has automatically adjusting timing, so it always sparks at the ideal time (in theory), it gets slightly better fuel economy, it doesn't require a heavy flywheel, it has less vibration, and it's easier to start (again due to the adjustable timing). Also, the 20cc uses a magnesium case which cuts weight down quite a bit. However, the disadvantage is that it requires a power source, in this case you are going to have to carry a second battery on the heli to power the ignition, and a switch to turn it on and off. Also, you have another box to mount, and more wiring. Ideally you keep the ignition box as far away from radio components as possibel as it does generate RF noise. This is the same tech as the big expensive airplane engines like those made by Desert Aircraft and 3w, as well as what you've got in your car (albeit much simpler than a car).

Apparently the factory magnetic pickup on the G20 engine is incompatible with the helicopter mounting, so the manual has you drill a hole and install the magnet in the fan hub. Not unlike how you would install a governor magnet. This was already done on the engine I received, as you can see in the picture.



The heli also comes with a nice extended throttle arm that is installed after flipping the carb 180deg to get the arm in the right spot. Nice piece, feels pretty secure once it's installed, although it doesn't run quite true, I need to pull it off to see where the fault lies in the assembly.



Now for my bitch of the day. I expressed my concerns about the nice screw case not being organized, and I've ran right up against it. The first step where I have to take a part out of a bag, assemble it and install it on the heli took me 10 minutes before I got pissed and put it down. I'm looking for 4mm x 6mm socket head screws. I'll give anyone who can spot one in this picture $100. Seriously. I will.



If I'm going to get this together, I'm going to have to dump all the screws out, and separate them in something like an ice cube tray. I know it's possible, but it really shows an area where QWW is behind the competition. Most helis have all the screws bagged for assemblies. So if this was a Hirobo, I'd be on bag G and there would be 15 screws in it, so the 4 I need would come quickly. The RJX Xtreme 50 I just built has all the same size screws bagged together, so if I needed a 3x10 screw, I just grabbed that bag. This is not a good way to do it. I appreciate the nice screw case, but it needs to ahve a lot more compartments, and have them sorted by size.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-20-2008 03:41 AM
 
 
ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

The clutch looks nice, i havent seen one like that before.

You are lucky with the assembled motor/clutch part, it means the timing must already be set for you.

Please keep it up.

we can never have too many, can we ?
03-20-2008 04:31 AM
 
 
jimboflies
Elite Veteran
Location: Beaumont, Texas,A Pimple on the ASS of society


There they are !!

Quick of Japan RULES
EP8v2 EX x 2
Trex450v2
EP9
03-20-2008 04:42 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
littleman
Key Veteran
Location: state college pa home of Penn State

i do beleive those are are m3's not M4's
A.J.

Proud member of Teams Minicopter Acrobat, CYE and Next D
AIM minicopter3d with questions
03-20-2008 04:56 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

I never rely on a kits hardware supply to be accurate no matter who makes it.

I spent about $150 one time about a month ago for an entire series of hardware from McMaster Carr. Dumped all of it in a couple of nice plastic compartment containers.

No more looking for missing hardware. I'm my own hardware supply now.

If you think about it you spend a bundle over time purchasing small amounts of hardware in spurts not to mention the time lost.

"Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.
03-20-2008 12:53 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
flyboy0413
Senior Heliman
Location: CT, USA

Sorry Jimbo, but that looks like an M4x8.
03-20-2008 01:13 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

OK, it turns out my 4x6mm challenge was fraudulent, and unwinnable. My father is visiting to see his new grandson, and looked over my shoulder as I read your replies. He saw my $100 challenge and went and grabbed the screw box. After hearing him swear a few times, he dumped it out on my table and started sifting through it, only to discover that there are no 4x6mm screws in there.

He now claims that I owe him $100 because I defrauded him and he would have won the prize if they had been in there. I told him too bad.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-20-2008 03:01 PM
 
 
jimboflies
Elite Veteran
Location: Beaumont, Texas,A Pimple on the ASS of society

I get my hardware from RTL fasteners , realy quality screws...

Quick of Japan RULES
EP8v2 EX x 2
Trex450v2
EP9
03-23-2008 04:39 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rsalazar
Key Veteran
Location: Florida, USA

Any updates!!
03-26-2008 02:22 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Yup, I'm still busy. When I work on it, I post.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-26-2008 02:25 AM
 
 
bubba01
Senior Heliman
Location: NE Pennsylvania

Any updates on the build??


Cop: Sir, have you been drinking? Driver: Why? Is there a fat girl in my backseat?
04-02-2008 02:12 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Tell you what, I will stop everything I'm doing, and finish it by the end of the weekend.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
04-02-2008 02:17 AM
 
 
bubba01
Senior Heliman
Location: NE Pennsylvania

Geez...didn't mean to strike a nerve. I was just curious.


Cop: Sir, have you been drinking? Driver: Why? Is there a fat girl in my backseat?
04-02-2008 02:26 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Well, if you read the post right above, I said I would update as I get a chance to work on it. I'm not holding out on anyone.

Like I said, I'll drop everything and get it done before the end of the weekend. Qww was kind enough to send it to me for the review, they deserve to have it done. I'vegot a flight to Tulsa at 5am tomorrow, my passengers are due back around 4 which puts me home around 6:30pm. I'll work on it after that. Expect an update by 9pm.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
04-02-2008 03:01 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Long day (took off at 5:30am, landed back home at 6:30pm), but as promised, here's an update. I joined the frames and got the landing gear together.

The frames come together very nicely, and by pulling 5 screws on each side, you can completely separate the top and bottom halves. The rear is held together by 3 long screws going through hard plastic blocks into a center plastic block that has metal threaded inserts for the screws to go into. This is a great design, I like it much better than the standard metal standoff that we often see in the center of frames on helis. This has the advantage of having a lot of surface are for the frames to mate to, and the inserts are held securely so you can tighten without the insert spinning.



The negative here is the inconsistent fastener size. Keep in mind that this is another area that came pre-assembled from QWW for me, so I am just reinserting existing screws. The front frame brace attaches to the top with 4 screws. The fasteners that QWW put in there are 3 3x12mm screws, and 1 3x8mm screw. That kind of inconsistency won't cause an issue with the use of the heli, since there are enough threads engaged even with the short fastener, but it shows a lack of quality control. Also, before section 2 of the manual, the frames are totally separate, and in all the pictures after, they are joined, with that front section screwed together, but the step to do it is not in the manual.





Next comes the landing gear. Nothing new to report here, it uses rubber dampers between the frames and the gear. I take issue with the size of the screws that go through the metal frame braces down into the dampers. It calls for 3x8mm screws (which were already installed in the dampers by QWW on this kit, and has a small spacer on them), and once they go through the brace there is only about 2mm that attaches to the damper. Seems inadequate to me. If the spacers are removed, there is another mm or so, but it really seems that these screws should be 12mm long like the ones that go up through the bottom.




Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
04-03-2008 02:49 AM
 
 
5 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ]4404 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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QuickWorldWide Ep and Wet Fuel Helis > The 20cc Gasser arrival, build, and review
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