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Blitz Helicopters Avro 90 > AVRO Nodding in Hover, and needing excessive right Aeleron Trim
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

Hi
As the topic states i seem to be having a few teething probs..

In the hover yesterday which was in a 8MPH wind the hellie was really nodding badly, it was if i had two mismatched blades or the head speed was really too low, my head speed is 1450 in normal is this too low?

The other problem, was i was trying to side on hover and i needed to add a lot of right Aeleron trim, now the only setting i have changed
is the swash AFR, i put them all down to 50% could this have affected that ?

I am also having engine problems it is a YS91 and we replaced the rubber diaphram the other week, but i have ot say the engine is really running bad, so i am wondering if this could be causing some of the symptoms above ?

The engine is at the moment running rich, i did go in 3 clicks on large needle - hovering mid range?

When it was first setup and test flown it was fine, so i know it is something that either i have done or has happend since then...

With the trim being out it made smooth controlled circuits very difficult,


Matt
02-21-2008 03:08 PM
 
 
ANDYC
Heliman
Location: BICESTER/OXON england

Matt,
Not entirley sure because I havn't flown mine yet but a the nodding scenario you decsribe would indicate to me a low head speed, or the dampers are too hard for the head speed you are trying to fly at.
02-21-2008 05:05 PM
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

thanks for the reply Andy,

I May book a lesson at Flyin fish and maybe sort it out,

it is only recently it started, it was fine when i flew it after it was built,

thans again for the reply

Matt
02-21-2008 05:24 PM
 
 
AreA51tje
Senior Heliman
Location: Murcia, Spain

Mattjen, had same problem last week with my AVRO and just pushed up a little bit the throttle curve in the 3 center points and the wobbeling was gone... this is definetily due to low head speed.

PS which setup do you use?

Will come back later on the other questions,
Regards, Dave
02-21-2008 05:39 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

Area51,

many thanks for the post, and also thanks to Andy, you both say the head speed is too low for the damping i have, so i will up that a little....

My set up is as follows

F3C SETTING
JR8231 ON CYCLIC AND THROTTLE
611 AND TAIL SERVO
DURALITE 5.8 REGULATOR
GV1 GOVERNER

PITCH CURVE IS AS FOLLOWS
NORMAL - 36,50,66,78,88.5
IDLE 1 - 22.5,39,58,73.5,90.5
IDLE2 - 14.5,33,50.5,70.5,90
HOLD - 26,46.5,64.5,81.5,100

SWASH AFR - AIL +45 , ELE +50 , PIT +55

EXPO NORM, 85 -25
IDLE 1 AND 2, 100 -30 RUDDER 100 -5%

SUB TRIM - AEL +20
PITCH +46

HEADSPEED/GOVERNER SETTING

NORMAL 1430
IDLE 1 1780
IDLE 2 1880

THATS IT
thanks for the help

Matt
02-21-2008 06:01 PM
 
 
DenisS
Key Veteran
Location: Essex, UK

Hi Matt,
plus if it was really cold the dampers will be a bit harder so on a warm day at the same RPM you may not have the nodding. You could always come over to Anglia (being as you are a member lol) and we could have a look at it. The AFR may have something to do with the trim setting as at a lower AFR the trim will not be as sensitive. As for the motor the simple things are obviously a new or different plug (if the motor was new and it has just been running in then it will need leaning out as a matter of course), the other simple thing is a different batch of fuel, maybe moisture has got in at some point. Again, check pipes for small holes, does the motor still employ the one-way valve in the fuel lines?? That could be faulty or stuck.
Just a couple of ideas
Denis

Crash 'n Lurn
02-21-2008 06:25 PM
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

Hi Dennis

Yeah i forgot i am a member, i may pop over, i will Pm you to ask when you are there...

The engine is 4 years old, i replaced the con rod and bearing and piston lining at the end of last summer as it was looking very tired... last week i noticed on the engine in particulalry the covered factory setting screw the little rubber cover was missing, so Dave replaced the diaphram and this cover...

I think the point you made about the cold weather makes sense, as the temps i have been flying in have been just over freezing, and thick fog!!

i never realised the wether would affect the dampners but it makes sense that it would affect - thanks for this info...

i opened a new can of fuel for the reason you stated, so i know it is not fuel, the motor does indeed employ the one way check valve, and it is must be 3yrs old, or even a little longer, i forgot about that - i will check this evening, as i have a new one, but i am unsure of which way round it goes,, DOH!!!

thanks for replying, same to the others who have posted as well

Matt
02-21-2008 06:52 PM
 
 
Jonty
Veteran
Location: London

Matt

I agree with all - your headspeed is too low. Bump it up to around 1600 -1750 and see how you get on.
02-21-2008 08:02 PM
 
 
The Old Guy
Senior Heliman
Location: UK Surrey

Regarding the one way valve
find the end that you can "suck" through, this end should be "away" from the engine on a 10cm length tube
02-21-2008 08:02 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Bond007
Senior Heliman
Location: Leicestershire UK

I'm not being funny, but why are you p***ing around with a 4 year old motor, in an airborne package that costs in excess of £1500

Bite the bullet and get a new one. Or, at best, spend the rest of this years flying season faffing around trying to get an old (tired!) motor running, and lose a lot of valuable flying time, and at worst, the engine will give up at the worst possible time during a flight, and you put the model in Not worth the risk for a £200 motor. Just my opinion.

Set the model back to the base settings as per the manual. Mine is flying really sweet like this

I agree with the nodding being an indication of a slow headspeed, but if your engine is running badly, you need to sort this problem first.

If you hover side on to the wind you are going to have to hold on cyclic to correct, ie; fly the model. If you trim it to hover side on, hands off, then when you turn again the trim will change. This is common to ALL Heli's

Sean

I notice you have a lot of subtrim on Pitch and aileron. Can you correct this manually ?

Blitz Avro, Vibe 50
02-21-2008 08:42 PM
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

[quote]If you hover side on to the wind you are going to have to hold on cyclic to correct, ie; fly the model. If you trim it to hover side on, hands off, then when you turn again the trim will change. This is common to ALL Heli's


Thanks, i know this, it is even worse on 1/4 sacale turbine

the reason it was confusing me, was adding right trim was taking it with the wind and not into wind, when really it should have been the other way around,

In regards to the engine, i have orderd a new one tonight after reading the posts, so thanks for the info guys, it has been really appreciated...

Hopefully meet some of you at the Opener,

Matt
02-21-2008 10:03 PM
 
 
AreA51tje
Senior Heliman
Location: Murcia, Spain

Anyone uses the Futaba 14MZ with the AVRO? Need some help/tips on the configuration...
Thanks in advance.. Regards, dave
02-21-2008 10:13 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Andy Hinton
Heliman
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom

Nodding Blitz Avro

Hi Matt

My Avro is so rock solid it's uncanny in hover (which is just about all I can do with her), I am running the stable setup at noted on Avro websire with YS91 ST4 and JR servos (8715) with 611 gyro, it's perfect.

Spent 2-hours with Dave Fisher who set it up for my ability, well worth doing as you will a much better flying experience. It's a great machine, get it set up right and you will fall in love with it!!

Regards
Very junior heleman (experience not years)

Andy

Gone flyin!!
02-21-2008 11:59 PM
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

thanks Andy

I have orderd a new YS from blitz @ £175.00 including VAT that is great and no delivery either...


No one else comes even this close to those prices, and still be in stock...

I have also put all the expo and swash settings back to what they recommend, i only had changed on a couple of % to what they said, my head speed was set up at 1430, so i have put this up to 1500 which is what they say for stable flight i bet it will be a different machine, i really did not want to have to go back my Venture.

i have a couple of 4hr lessons booked up with Dave, to iron out any bugs in my rusty flying, the tourble i am finding is going from a Vario turbine which is stodgey to this Avro whch rolls when you cough on the sticks, has takent some getting used to, i wish my Vario turbines/scale were as stable as this Avro...

Matt
02-22-2008 12:15 AM
 
 
Andy Hinton
Heliman
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom

DR and Expo Avro Blitz

Matt,

I have two set-ups in my Avro one is for training only with no ability inverted this has a pitch curve of 40% point L, 68% point 3 and 91% at point H. It is the same in norn, idle up 1 and 2.

The DR and Expo are Aile norm DR65% Expo 25%, expo same all way through but idle up 1 DR is 70% and 2 is 80% same for elev. On rudder 10% expo all way through and DR in norm 80%, idle up 1 90% and 2 100%.

Throttle curve set to:-

L 0%
1 35%
2 44%
3 50.5%
4 62,5%
5 75%
H 100%

This same all modes with GV1 set to 1500 in Norm, 1550 in idle up 1 and 1600 in idle up 2.

Swash set to Aile -60%, Elev 60% and pit 85%.

This gives a very stable flight but definately no aeros, good for circuits, nose in, line practice etc.

I have second set-up called Blitz 3D which has same set up for Norm but much more conventional set-up for idle up 1 and 2 to allow 3D, I am not good enough to fly 3D at present so easy setup is the one I use unless on lead.

No doubt Flying (Dave) Fish will go through the machine and set it up to suit your requirements and check the build out. Definately worth doing.

Best of luck.
Andy

Gone flyin!!
02-22-2008 07:52 AM
 
 
MattJen
Elite Veteran
Location: uk

Thanks Andy

Good setup, i can see fromt he curves you have done that wold make it very dosile and stable

Do you use flybar weights ?

For info

Dave built and setup my machine, i think most of my problems are a crud engine which needs to go the helie shed in the sky, and i have changed a ocuple of the settings, all be it minutely..

I am looking forward to flying this over the weekend

Matt
02-22-2008 09:17 AM
 
 
Andy Hinton
Heliman
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom

Nodding Blitz

Matt,

Yep I do have flybar wieghts. I use SAB paddles and they come with flybar weights all up weight 35gms per side. Just right I think for me. I did have 15gm paddles but much too twitchy for me!

Andy

Gone flyin!!
02-22-2008 12:33 PM
 
 
Bond007
Senior Heliman
Location: Leicestershire UK

Glad you've gone for the new engine You won't regret it.

I'm using 30gm paddles and 24gm weights set 1/2 way on flybar. All other settings are as per the manual. Mine feels really solid and stable in the hover. It's not quite how I want it yet, but I'm concentrating on just getting the engine run in and getting used to the model before having a play with expo etc.

I'm not using a governor at the moment either. Best to set the throttle curves to match the pitch as close as possible, then put the governor on. My reasoning for this is 1) a governor can mask a badly set motor 2) if the governor packs up I still have a useable throttle curve, and 3) it makes the governor work more efficiently.

Expo is really a personal thing. Some love it really dead around the centre point, some don't. The best way is to set as per manual, fly it, then change the expo and rates to suit you. If you mess it up or get confused you can always set it back to the recommended settings

Sean

Blitz Avro, Vibe 50
02-22-2008 02:17 PM
 
 
DWyn
Heliman
Location: FAREHAM, Hants - UK

Dave,

I am using a 14MZ on 2.4Ghz, I wont guarantee I can help but will try.
02-22-2008 03:41 PM
 
 
AreA51tje
Senior Heliman
Location: Murcia, Spain

Hi Dwyn,
Send you a PM!! 2,4 Ghz doesnt matter becuase I have some configuration questions... Thanks mate..
Regards, Dave
02-22-2008 03:59 PM
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Blitz Helicopters Avro 90 > AVRO Nodding in Hover, and needing excessive right Aeleron Trim
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