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Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC . CanoMod

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RJX Hobby Hurrican 50 - Xtreme 50 > My X50 build and comparison
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

The carb smart is really cool. After flying it hard yesterday I very quickly landed and ran up to it, and watched it slowly pull the mixture leaner as it sat on the ground. I also played with the temps, there was a noticeable performance difference between 100 and 110 deg. The only bad part is that I now have to buy a couple more to put in my other helis, I like it so much.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-02-2008 01:46 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Got 2.1 more flights on it today (and 3 more on the 600N breaking in the TT Redline). I got the governor up and running properly, and although I need someone to tach it for me, it's pretty close. The heli is pretty ballistic, very fast, and responsive. The second flight I did a backflipping takeoff right into tic-tocs, and it just jumped around in the air doing what I commanded and stayed where I put it without any tendency to wander and without any interactions. After the second tank, the dampers definitely seemed to be breaking in, because a good portion of the wobble in autos is gone. Towards the end of the second flight I was practicing holding piros in 1 place and doing piro-ing circuits (both are major weak points for me), and doign very well, the heli just responds so smoothly.

Why 2.1? Well, after starting for the 3rd time, I flipped it into idle up 2, and did a few fast stationary piros, and right after a fast stop at about 6 feet up, the heli started piroing out of control. Good thing I had been practicing those, because I had no problem keeping it nice and level in 1 place, hitting thottle hold and setting it down in the piro. I shut it down and walked out only to find the tail rotor and half of the pitch change mechanism missing, and sitting about 20 feet away on the grass. The failure is completely my fault, the set screws on the tail hub came loose. The screws on these helis come oiled, and really need to be cleaned if the locktite is going to hold, and if I was guessing, I didn't clean the set screws well enough. Good news is, it appears that all the parts are fine with the exception of the ball links on the pitch change mechanism, which got damaged when it came apart.

Good news is, the seesaw held fine this time, after it came loose again yesterday, I reassembled it while being more generous with the red locktite.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-02-2008 09:56 PM
 
 
deafheliflyer
Veteran
Location: Arizona

hi

thanks for the tips..

I will clean all my screws then reloctite them.. I did notice a bit of oil on the screws but didnt think much of it..

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!
03-02-2008 10:15 PM
 
 
rsalazar
Key Veteran
Location: Florida, USA

Nick
thanks for the update and the tips!!
03-02-2008 10:41 PM
 
 
Foxden
Key Veteran
Location: Port Charlotte, FL. USA

I drop all my new screws into a small plastic cup with 91% alcohol and swish them around, then just towel dry them and that takes the oil reisdue off, I now only use Loctite 243 with is the oil torrerant version and it seems to hold extreamly well.

Practicing Auto's is your friend, Steven and I were taught to never land under power to always hit hold and then land, so it becomes send nature.

Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
RJX of USA Field Rep
Team Rotorworkz
Morgan Fuel Rep
03-02-2008 10:47 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Foxden
Key Veteran
Location: Port Charlotte, FL. USA

Nick,

Sounds like the dampers are seating, good news as I haven't tried them yet but have a few sets on there way.

Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
RJX of USA Field Rep
Team Rotorworkz
Morgan Fuel Rep
03-02-2008 10:49 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RjX of USA
Senior Heliman
Location: IL

Eury

Nice save nick. Yes, everything in the Xtreme kit should be cleaned in a material that will desolve oil, as actone which I use every build,evey heli kit out there should have this method used were metal to metal is used. loctite has to be a very big part of this build. The 243 is the best bet for blue loctite.

Rusty Howard rjxofusa@myway.com
03-02-2008 11:10 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Yup, like I said, it's a good thing I was practicing stationary piros the previous tank, and I'm good at autos. I did dump the individual screw bags into alcohol, but must have forgotten to do the 2 set screws for the tail hub since they came separately with my upgraded tail. I've just got to dig through my stuff, and see if I have a set of links I can replace the ones that got damaged with, I've spent enough on shipping with RJX, I don't need to do it just for the little links. Good news is the Pantera uses a similar system, so I may be able to adapt those since my pantera is in pieces in a box.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-02-2008 11:50 PM
 
 
ez2bgman
Elite Veteran
Location: N'awlins, LA

Very nice save, Nick. I actually used some lacquer thinner to clean my screws. I have 5 gallons of it since I paint my own canopies.

Quote 
The heli is pretty ballistic, very fast, and responsive.

I feel the same way. Even in the 20+ mph winds that we had at our field this Sunday, the Xtreme was very easy to fly. While it was difficult to hold one position while doing tic tocs and death spirals, she was steady as a rock during FFF. I cannot wait for the weather to cooperate so I can truly see how well she flies.

Gary
RJX of USA
Magnum Fuels
SwitchGlo
>Hot Girlz in da gallery<
03-04-2008 04:22 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCHeliJim
Key Veteran
Location: Orem, UT USA

Quote 
Started messing with it, and discovered a new issue, the flybar seesaw has one of the mounting holes stripped. I noticed that the screw on that side was loose (it was tight before flight, and fastened like the instructions say), and after pulling it out discovered that the threads are stripped. Pretty disappointing, I've pulled the seesaw, and it seems like it was made of pretty soft metal, and with the length of the screws there aren't very many threads engaged in the seesaw.

Gotta chime in here on the seesaw issue as well. Mine unfortunately failed in flight and a crash followed... $300 later and its in the air again. I have little faith in the seesaw assembly, it is put in with red loctite and clean bolts this time (last time it was with blue loctite and clean bolts). I have a few flights on it since the repair and so far, so good. BUT, I still have little faith in that seesaw setup. There has to be a way to make it so longer or even some 4mm wide bolts can be used to hold it in. I am hoping it will do fine now, but I do check the bolts each flight for sure.

Anyway, thats my only gripe with the heli. It flies great and is a good build as well.



Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK
-Team RCHeliMag
03-05-2008 04:24 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

OK, so we have 3 confirmed with the same problem. How long before RJX steps up and fixes an obvious weak point? Every heli has issues, but when the issue is one as critical as the flybar seesaw, that's big enough to cause real doubts in the machine.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-05-2008 04:44 PM
 
 
RjX of USA
Senior Heliman
Location: IL

Xtreme head

The Xtremes head design with the seesaw through the center block is a design thats been used on alot of different helis through the yrs, these seesaws have always required more attention than it's counter part design.
RjX being awhere the seesaw is of a greater maintenance design has made sure the info is available to our customer about this. Please be sure and checked and rechecked this part after flights.
If you visit www.rjxofusa.com site you will see we have this posted on our "Tips & Tricks" (#2) page under "Manuals" on the bottom of the page, and every kit is shipped with this info in it as well. The seesaw is not just stripping out in fight, the screw has to be loctited as we have discussed but, that is not a promise it will stay.
It is a must to check after flight. If it starts to back out during flight it could then pull what threads it has the rest of the way out.
The Xtreme as well as every heli out there must have regular inspections to ensure safty.

Rusty Howard rjxofusa@myway.com
03-05-2008 08:07 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

How many failures have you seen, and how many replacement seesaws have you sold vs kits? I'd bet that 50% of the people posting that they have these helis are reps, so we'll never hear if they have an issue. Also, in the UK, where they don't have the large number of reps, the heli doesn't have a good reputation, and poor quality metal in pieces like the seesaw is on of the reasons. In fact, the poor quality of the seesaw is one of the things I've specifically heard before.

Hoisting the responsibility off on us because you print a warning in the manual isn't acceptable. You are right, plenty of other helicopters have this same design, and the X50 is the only one I've heard of with the seesaw failing. I've flown Miniature's helis with the same flybar seesaw design for well over a decade, and never had that issue. Maybe it's due to there being more threads engaged, maybe it's better materials in those helis, I don't know and I don't care. This shouldn't be an item that is consumable, and if the nature of it is that the design is so poor that the bolts have to be checked after every flight because they come loose, then RJX needs to fix the design, blaming it on the end user not doing proper maintenance is wrong, irresponsible, and insulting.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-05-2008 08:51 PM
 
 
RCHeliJim
Key Veteran
Location: Orem, UT USA

As I said before, the seesaw is the only true issue I have personally found to date. I have built well over 50 helis over the years and followed the build tip using 243 loctite, cleaning the bolts as always, and allowing that assembly to dry undisturbed for a night. I admit that I did not re-check those bolts after the 3rd flight or so and they failed on the 5th flight with the heli. Sure, I take the blame for not checking those bolts: but there is some room for improvement in either the materials, design, or mounting method of that assembly. First off, I would at least rewrite the tip to recommend red loctite since that is what it appears most of the reps are using on theirs.... the blue was not enough for at least 3 of us.

I paid for my repair parts and Rusty was kind enough to help me out with shipping, no complaints there. In the end I would have caught this error with a better pre-flight that day, so its my bad, but that still does not mean that the assembly shouldn't be re-examined to see if it can be improved upon, right? It is one part that is marginal at best on an otherwise solid helicopter. Its also an area I have never had issues with on any other heli, so we know it can be done.

All I am saying is that perhaps RJX of USA could forward these concerns on to the manufacturer and see of they can either improve the material in this part, slightly redesign it, or change the fastening method. It would do nothing but improve on an already solid heli.

I am keeping this bird, I like how it flies and its well made - and I am hopeful that any small problem areas will be addressed as more end users get their feedback in.



Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK
-Team RCHeliMag
03-06-2008 01:15 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Quote 
All I am saying is that perhaps RJX of USA could forward these concerns on to the manufacturer and see of they can either improve the material in this part, slightly redesign it, or change the fastening method. It would do nothing but improve on an already solid heli.

Exactly, that's why the last post from RJX that can be summed up with "it's not our fault, you guys screwed up" is so frustrating. Saying that it's the nature of that type of seesaw is 100% untrue, it's not a unique design, and other helis with it do not have the same problem.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-06-2008 01:23 AM
 
 
acri84
Heliman
Location: covington, ga -usa

eury
I think you have mis-understood Rusty. I don't personally know him except for over the phone and he is a honest person and he is defenatly concerned about issues with this or any of his products. So I realy do not think he was trying to sound off like end users are at fault. Also I am willing to bet that over seas RJX has already seen these posts.I believe they frequent here. Remember when Min Aircraft put out their supper tail gear casing for their gasser. My tail rotor output shaft broke right at the end causing a crash. I say this cause you used them for an exsample. Judging from your posting you seem expirienced, so you must also know that every manufacturer has issues. So many that we could sit here all night naming flaws and experiences we have had with different helis. I am on my second X-50 and had no trouble with it. True that i had alot of Pointers from Foxden, who also told me to use red locktight on seesaw. Regardless of my opinion I respect your oppinion, but make no mistake the field reps for RJX have posted concerns and solutions for things they have found. I am one of them. Look back at the RJX history and you will see them. I wish you luck!

Mike
RJX of USA field rep
G-Force Factory Pilot
BEAM TEAM
Magnum Fuel Rep
03-06-2008 01:51 AM
 
 
Foxden
Key Veteran
Location: Port Charlotte, FL. USA

Nick, not only am I a rep I'm the very first Rep that Rusty brought on board 1 1/2 years ago. I will to tell you that I personally over tightened my first seesaw ball link, I tend to have a gorella grip, I ordered and paid for a replacement and cleaned the ball link with 90% alcohol and used red loctite and Steven is still flying that same seesaw with well over 40 flights on it and todate it hasn't loosened or caused any problems, I do check it between flights and it hasn't loosened up.

The owner of RJX does visit the forums and I'm sure he is already looking into the seesaw concerns that have been discussed on the forum.

Clyde Fox
Port Charlotte FL
RJX of USA Field Rep
Team Rotorworkz
Morgan Fuel Rep
03-06-2008 02:08 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

We'll see what comes of it. No offense guys, but you are salesmen for the brand, and just like you wouldn't go into Radio Shack and believe the guy telling you that the cell phone he's selling is great, people really need to take what you guys say as an advertisement for your brand as well. As Clyde knows, I was a field rep for another company once, but the end of that story is I walked away from it after a week or 2 specifically because I didn't like the obligation to never say anything negative about the product. I call things like I see them, if something is crap, I'll say it is. Don't take that as me attacking you, because I'm not, but the fact is, you ARE salesmen for the brand.

I have no doubt that mine will hold from here on out. If you put a good amount of red locktite on something, it's stuck barring a material failure. The point that is being missed here is that it's a weak spot in the design. If it wasn't, people wouldn't be having the failures. Yes, it can be worked around, but why should it? It seems that redesigning it so there is more meat in the seesaw so it can have more threads engaged, or making it out of harder metal would solve the issue. It's obviously common, so fix it.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
03-06-2008 02:31 AM
 
 
Mr.Green
Senior Heliman
Location: Layton, Utah

I'm with Eury and RCHeliJim on this one. It's a problem that needs to be addressed and fixed by the manufacturer. Excuses shouldn't need to be made for a faulty or poorly designed part. Just fix it and let's move on.
03-06-2008 02:43 AM
 
 
ez2bgman
Elite Veteran
Location: N'awlins, LA

I have five flights (3 of them in 20+ mph winds) on my Xtreme 50 with no problems what-so-ever with the seesaw. I was really pushing my X50 this passed Sunday in those high winds, and never had any issues at all with the heli. When I built the seesaw on my X50, I cleaned the threads of the ball with some lacquer thinner. I then used the blue 243 loctite to secure the ball to the seesaw. I did not use a guerrilla grip to tighten the screws, just snugged it up and gave it another 1/8 turn or so. I will continue to monitor this area to see if any problems arise as I fly my Xtreme.

Gary
RJX of USA
Magnum Fuels
SwitchGlo
>Hot Girlz in da gallery<
03-06-2008 02:49 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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RJX Hobby Hurrican 50 - Xtreme 50 > My X50 build and comparison
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