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Beginners Corner > Why is this accepted?
 
 
Matt Smith
Heliman
Location: Newton, NJ

I was just thinking about something that's been bothering me. I've often heard it related that you WILL crash before fully learning to fly, that it's unavoidable. Why? I can understand this viewpoint if you're going it alone(believe me, I've been there before), but if a competent instructor is available to help, why should crashes be expected in early training? Or is this just assuming that everyone learns on their own? I know I had my share of, umm, "unintended landings" when I tried to learn flying a Hummingbird solo, but I had no guidance, either...

Case in point: the club where I fly(mostly fixed wing) has several "heli hacks" who spend all their time on setup and yapping, flying only occasionally, as well as a few really good expert heli pilots. One of those experts is a friend of mine who has taken a few newcomers under his wing. Of the two guys he started teaching early last season, one has not yet crashed, and is comfortable in forward flight and loops, and rolls, and is practicing autos. The other progressed rapidly in training and didn't have his first crash until losing orientation flying an aerobatic routine at dusk. My friend was very patient in advising these guys and just stood next to them offering instruction and tempering their flying--no buddy box.

So I know that it's possible to progress to being a competent pilot without crashing. It seems to me that the key is frequent practice, good maintenance, and not rushing things to advance past your acquired skill level too soon.

What do you guys think?
02-15-2008 07:49 PM
 
 
BarracudaHockey
rrMaster
Location: Orange Park FL

It's pretty much a given that either by mechanical failure, dumb thumbs, flying into the sun or whatever, that a person is going to tear something up sooner or later.

There are of course exceptions to the rule, just as there are those that win the lotto even though though the odds are better of getting killed by an airplane falling out of the sky on the way to buy the ticket.


AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
02-15-2008 07:56 PM
 
 
Matt Smith
Heliman
Location: Newton, NJ

Well, that I can agree with. Fly long enough and you will crash for sure. But what I'm questioning is--why is it perceived that crashing has to be a part of learning?
02-15-2008 08:09 PM
 
 
TwistedRotor
Senior Heliman
Location: Tulsa, OK- USA

What is your definition of "fully learning to fly"? Is it just hover, FF, then land. Or are we talking all oreintations plus inverted?

Good question though. Lord knows I've crashed enough. But, I figure we're all still learning to fly in a sense even the pros. I've never see a guy put his TX down and say "Well, that's it. I've learned everything about helos. Time to go do something else."
02-15-2008 08:17 PM
 
 
Matt Smith
Heliman
Location: Newton, NJ

Maybe my definition of learning to fly is the issue, especially since I'm a novice all over again with CP helis. To me, a basic competent pilot can hover upright in any orientation steadily, take off and land smoothly, and fly in forward flight in a controlled manner, maybe do some backward flight, loops and/or rolls. Anything beyond that is an aerobatic pilot in my opinion. "Three Dee" flying holds absolutely no interest for me, so I don't count that. I am capable of most common "3D" maneuvers in fixed wing flight, but that style of flying just doesn't appeal to me--it's fun at first, but it really looks more like extended crash avoidance practice than graceful, controlled flight.
Guess I'm probably in the minority there...
02-15-2008 08:33 PM
 
 
Breitenstein
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark (Scandinavia)

People who say "You will crash before you fully learn to fly" are wrong! It dosen't have to be that way!!!

I started flying R/C helis in the spring of 2004, and learned everything by myself, without any help other than reading some books and also reading here. I had an experienced pilot overlook and check my setup before the first flight, just to make sure I had done it properly. I should add that I had used MANY hours using RealFlight G2 before my first flight IRL.

Until now I've only had 2 minor crashes! First one was in 2006 and the second in 2007.

So there.............

Breitenstein
Proud member of THE DARK SIDE!
02-15-2008 09:31 PM
 
 
ccobalt3
Senior HeliGirl
Location: Plainfield,IN

I think this truly depends on the the person's outlook. I personally think crashing is part of learning. I mean people learn things from their mistakes and learning how to correct your mistakes is part of learning how to fly. Yes you maybe lucky and have never crashed in 20 yrs but you still haven't had the full on flying experience. I know these machines do not run cheap but you may during the rebuilding process think of something better to do. Or next time you are at the field and you find yourself heading for a crash you will know how to correct this go around.
02-15-2008 11:36 PM
 
 
mintaka007
Heliman
Location: spokane, wa usa

crashing is just an excuse to buy new shizzit.

Joker cx
Trex se
"Franken"Axe
Addictive as cocaine, but cocaine is cheaper!
02-15-2008 11:39 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
allns47
Veteran
Location: Richmond IN.

I been flying for 6 years and have never crashed.
02-15-2008 11:46 PM
 
 
allns47
Veteran
Location: Richmond IN.

Just kidding..I crash all the time...
02-15-2008 11:46 PM
 
 
mickeyapples
Veteran
Location: England

You learn by your mistakes. and new peoples make mistakes.

Live life on the edge. Stand next to me when I am flying
02-15-2008 11:57 PM
 
 
A. Bundy
Elite Veteran
Location: Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of Chicago

It's hard to learn and stuff breaks.Easier to accept if you are told upfront.If you don't crash learning you can feel lucky or gifted.
02-16-2008 12:01 AM
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts

In the early stages, the chances of crashing are greatly reduced if you have some instruction. But everyone is bound to crash sooner or later, weather it be mechanical/electrical failure, dumb thumbs, getting caught out an a low level manouver or whatever.
When everyone starts shouting lower lower LOWER, yu know how it is

Vegetable rights and Peace
02-16-2008 12:13 AM
 
 
Way2slow
Veteran
Location: Jeffersonville Ga

I think it depends on how long you want to stay within your comfort zone and how much you want to push the envelope. Staying in your comfort zone will greatly reduce crash potential but slows progression. Pushing the envelope, is going to create greater potential to crashe. I like living on the edge, when I get tired of crashing, I slow down and work within my comfort zone, but get bored with that pretty soon so I start going outside my comfort zone again.
02-16-2008 02:43 AM
 
 
Markus87
Senior Heliman
Location: Melbourne, AU

Man i think my first crash is going to be a killer. I've taught my self RC heli flying and have been flying for 6 months, still havent crashed yet!! i'm doing flips, loops, rolls, tic toc, funnels, inverted hovering etc.

I think i need to lawn dart my heli just to get that first crash out of the way!!
02-16-2008 02:51 AM
 
 
MaxAdventure
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder, Colorado

When I first heard of 'you will crash learning to fly a heli', it was in reference to the statistic that fixed wing fliers will crash less as they progress, due to the largest learning curve being take off and landing, and Heli pilots will crash more as the progress, due to the complexities of the maneuvers as you become more advanced.
02-16-2008 05:26 AM
 
 
arrio
Senior Heliman
Location: Newport News, VA

I think it is similar to the analogy as presented to me when I took drivers ED as young man. The instructor said something to the effect "everybody in this class will someday have a car accident".
If you do something long enough, you will either make a mistake, or something will fail....
It doesn't matter to me, I've crashed too many times to remember. But I still love this hobby.


"fly it like you hate it"
Alfred (arrio) Riopel "more toys than time"
02-16-2008 01:24 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
A. Bundy
Elite Veteran
Location: Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of Chicago

Let's just say this.When I started,I was the lucky bastard that never crashed and had the crazy saves all the time.Things change.
02-16-2008 03:52 PM
 
 
rexxigpilot
Senior Heliman
Location: florida

Way2slow, Abundy and others are on the right track here. We learn by pushing the limits of our abilities into the unknown. The fear of crashing can be overwhelming to the newbie. By telling them they will crash gives them some level of comfort that if they do indeed crash, it's OK - we all crash.

How many have seen new club members bring their heli's to the field over the course of several weeks or months and either never fly or tail in hover only? How fast are they going to progress in their flying skills? Not much - because they are afraid to crash.
02-16-2008 07:03 PM
 
 
mickeyapples
Veteran
Location: England

Fly it like the SIM

Live life on the edge. Stand next to me when I am flying
02-16-2008 09:51 PM
 
 
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Beginners Corner > Why is this accepted?
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