RunRyder - 7.4 Volts unregulated - Horizon Hobby update

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Main Discussion > 7.4 Volts unregulated - Horizon Hobby update

BJames111
Elite Veteran
Location: Billings, Montana

Took a look at this new product from Spektrum today:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...rodID=SPMAR9100

It appears that it is intended to use two 2 cell lithium batteries, in a redundant system. Infact, in the paper manual included with the unit I opened, it even gave examples of being used in a 40% plane with 9 JR8711 servos, and 1 JR 8317 servo on the throttle. Then it showed the power system using two 7.4V li-po batteries. Then underneath that it stated that no regulator was used. THEN, under that, it said NOTE: JR 8711 servos and JR 8317 Servos are not rated for more than 6 Volts, and will void the warranty if run over 6 Volts.

THAT'S funny, because it seem that the spektrum brand is gearing up for a regulator-less system they even have LI-PO batteries labeled as reciever batteries:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...odID=SPMB4000LP

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...odID=SPMB6000LP

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...odID=SPMB1350LP

AND NOW, a regulator for the rudder servo:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...rodID=SPMVR5203

SO here's what I did, since the manual contradicted itself. I called Horizon Hobby, and spoke with the product support tech. I advised him of what was in the manual. He quickly replied that it was a typo. (I highly doubt it was a typo, who is Horizon trying to fool?) Then I asked, (given the nature of the product the AR9100 "Powersafe" reciever, and IT'S ability to run off of 6V to 10V) which servos did Horizon Hobby distribue that would safely run off of a 2 cell lithium battery without a regulator, I asked for his "official" answer, and was told "no servos Horizon Hobby offers for sale or distribution are rated for over 6 Volts" I pushed harder, "Are you aware that people have been running the JR8717 servos at 7.4 Volts unregulated?" he chuckled, and only responded "JR servos are rated at 6 Volts, and running them at a higher voltage will void the warranty".

I wanted this information to be available to fellow R/C heli enthusiests who are thinking of running a JR8717 servo using this power system, or similar. IF YOUR SERVOS FAIL, YOU WILL NOT BE ENTITLED TO ANY WARRANTY WHATSOEVER.

For the record, I like Horizon's products, and I like JR radios, recievers, and servos. They're what I use in my own Heli. I DON'T like feeling decieved, and today, i think I felt decieved.

Brian James
Miniature Aircraft Fury Extreme
G-Force Heli
Elevated R/C

02-13-2008 02:52 AM

HOMEPAGE

Mr.Green
Senior Heliman
Location: Layton, Utah

That's good to know - thank you. I just got some 8717's for my new toy and was reading about the "crack pack" and thinking about giving it a try, but I think for now I'll stick with my original plans with a regulator.

02-13-2008 04:21 AM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

My opinion is HH could be a bit more up front with the results they have testing this equipment on unregulated 2S power. The fact that they do not acknowledge there are several sponsored pilots flying this configuration leads to an uneasy stance toward their support.

BUT, I think the reality is they are leaving themselves out for any support or potential litigation which they would undoubtedly line up for if they gave ANY hint of 8V being ok'd or "works but not supported". Just look at the case against Spektrum - a bit frivolous IMO.

I'll bet that HH's stance here is being driven from advice offered by legal council <-- pure speculation.

...yep...

02-13-2008 04:21 AM

BJames111
Elite Veteran
Location: Billings, Montana

Jschenck,

I totally agree. I knew all along why they would say that, and we're all aware that quite a few people have been using the 2s system for quite a while, I just wanted the information I found about today to be public knowledge.

While ASJ, gets servos for free, John Doe doesn't. Heli enthusiasts are quick to go for the next hot set up spending their hard earned money to duplicate the pros' setups. It is important for them to know that if the product were to fail, the manufacturer wouldn't warrant their product in that case.

Brian James
Miniature Aircraft Fury Extreme
G-Force Heli
Elevated R/C

02-13-2008 04:27 AM

HOMEPAGE

Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

If you guys want to know the REAL answer to this question, ask MacMan to ask JP directly OR send an email to JR Japan directly.

That will be as final an answer as you can get.

Ben

02-13-2008 05:41 AM

MJWS
Key Veteran
Location: Airdrie, AB - Canada

Remember that receiver is geared towards giant scale. A couple of A123 packs will plug straight in and allow for nice high currents without regulators. The box is the power bus (30A/50A) the satellites are the receivers comes with a built in failsafe soft switch.

Spektrum also has a very nice 10A/16A burst regulator they will be flogging for that rx.

I thought it was pretty cute as well that they had the example plane running unregulated. Obviously we do it on heli's, and the more adventurous GS guys are all over it as well.

I have no idea why they are so clandestine supporting the higher voltage . Perhaps they are just waiting on longer term results from the team guys running them 'hot'. Maybe they want to change the sticker and jack the price for their new HV servos.

All I know is that rx was pretty much custom made for my big planks, and will be bulletproof on A123s. Sure does make a crack pack with say redundant 1320's (larger if you like) plug and play for all the current we can manage. We usually have bigger problems than servo warranty if something fails. I think we'll be waiting a while, or on a different 'differentiated' product before we get an official blessing.

Mike

02-13-2008 08:13 AM

AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

How about getting Horizon to define what they mean by "rated for 6V" ?
Does that mean no more than 6V or does that mena a 5 cell NiCd pack which can easily be above 6V ?

02-13-2008 05:23 PM

HOMEPAGE

BJames111
Elite Veteran
Location: Billings, Montana

I would imagine that a servo rated at 6 volts, is going to be good using a 5 cell nicad.

Brian James
Miniature Aircraft Fury Extreme
G-Force Heli
Elevated R/C

02-13-2008 05:36 PM

HOMEPAGE

MrMel
Elite Veteran
Location: Lidingo, Sweden

And nor is the BLS451 "rated" more then 6v, however, its ran on 7v by several anyway. Both Duralite and Fromeco coming out with new regulators doing up to 8v.

Heck my neu motors in my e-stratus is rated 50 amps and I pushing 120...or my 55amp ESC, pushing 100 amps.

Its the nature of our hobby.

02-13-2008 05:54 PM

nap_tan
Senior Heliman
Location: Santa Clara CA, USA

Doesn't 6V mean 5 cell Ni-cds which translated 6.5+ V?

02-13-2008 07:45 PM

AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

Yes, that's what it means to most of us.
Actually a 5 cell NiCd pack can give up to 7.0 volts.

BUT with the CYA responces from Horizon, I want a commitment from them.

I still want to see people starting ut use a 2S A123 pack without a regulator.

02-13-2008 08:12 PM

HOMEPAGE

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

and 2S lipo is ~8.4V, not 7.4V. looking forward to the regulators shipping with adjustable output so we can run 7V regulated, opening up some of the other servos other that can handle 7V but we'd be concerned running unregulated 2S to.

...yep...

02-13-2008 08:32 PM

AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

The only time you get 8.4V from a LiPo 2S pack is right off the charger,
just like 7.5V from a 5 cell NiCd right off the charger.

Let them sit for 20 min. and that comes down as much as 10%

02-13-2008 08:44 PM

HOMEPAGE

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

A lipo doesn't loose voltage like a nicad,at least mine dont,they will maintain 8.4 volts for weeks without use.

02-13-2008 08:59 PM

Ken Filloon
Senior Heliman
Location: Highland, Michigan

Quote
7.4V. looking forward to the regulators shipping with adjustable output so we can run 7V regulated, opening up some of the other servos other that can handle 7V but we'd be concerned running unregulated 2S to.

The new SGP ReactorX is switchable from 6 to 6.8 Volts.
It seems like a great unit with its built in power bus for swash servos only. The only thing I do not like is the price $134.00.

02-14-2008 12:00 AM

AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

Quote
A lipo doesn't loose voltage like a nicad,at least mine dont,they will maintain 8.4 volts for weeks without use.

So I guess you're going to be stuck with a regulator no matter what you do.

02-14-2008 12:59 AM

HOMEPAGE

oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

I see mention here of 2 cell Lipo and 2 cell A123. What is of consequence is the voltage under load of say 3 amps.

Two different battery types.

One under load will easily give 7.4 PLUS (3.7V per cell) and the other will do maybe 6.2V (3.1V per cell).

So in effect we are looking at a big supply of power difference.

02-14-2008 01:36 AM

AirWolfRC
rrProfessor
Location: 42½ N, 83½ W

The A123 cell type has a lower voltage to start with (3.3V vs 3.8V), typically a higher discharge capacity (60X) and a much faster charge capability (flat to full in 15 min.)

02-14-2008 02:25 AM

HOMEPAGE

kogibankole
Senior Heliman
Location: albuquerque

if you were to send your servos in there isnt a black box in them saying that they were run on a 2 cell lipo

02-14-2008 02:58 AM

JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

EXACTLY.

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz

02-14-2008 03:56 AM

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