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Aerobatic FAI F3C Contest > It's Richard Simmons time!
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

How heavy are your 90-size FAI machines with no fuel?
01-30-2008 02:24 AM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

55 views to date, and noone knows how heavy their machines are?

I only ask because the topic of weight came up in a private conversation, and it was suggested that my machine may suffer a bit in autos because of it's weight (11.25-11.50 lbs.). I was just curious what the average machine weight is among other brands.
01-30-2008 04:39 PM
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

weight

My Stratus weighed 10 lbs 8 oz but I had to put 6 oz of lead in it to get it to balance. I think Wayne's Caliber was over 12 lbs.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
01-30-2008 04:51 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

10-8 with the lead? Wow... those are pretty light mechanics!

Didn't your Pro-2's come in around 11.5? How did they auto in contest conditions?

Yeah, I seem to recall that Wayne's was over 12. Didn't he weight in at nearly the maximum in Poland? I can't remember where I read it.
01-30-2008 05:05 PM
 
 
copterviews
Key Veteran
Location: Myrtle Beach SC

Wayne told me just 4 oz under!
01-30-2008 06:17 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Wayne Mann
Senior Heliman
Location: United States of America

Hi guys,

My primary machine at the Worlds tipped the scales at 5.92 KG or 13.02 pounds. The limit is 6 KG. My Calibers with the Fun Tech StaySee bodies have two Futaba 1500 batteries all the way out in the nose along with a good amount of weight on the batteries to get the cg like I want it. They hovered extremely well in Poland in the brutal winds that we were flying in and with the YS RS long stroke engine they have unbelievable vertical performance upstairs with the rotor Tech 720 blades.

So don't worry about the weight of the machine. As long as it is under the max limit you can make it fly great...if you know how to set it up or get some help to get it flying right.


Wayne Mann
01-30-2008 06:37 PM
 
 
Paul Susbauer
Senior Heliman
Location: Spokane Valley, WA

I assume these weights you guys are listing are with the Fuses on them? What do the various ships typically weigh w/o the fuses? I weighed my Blackshark I just got and its pretty darn light.

--Paul

Ineptitude - If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.
01-31-2008 03:06 AM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Paul,

How light is light? Is this an Irwin Blackshark (from QWW), or an actual Black Products Blackshark?
01-31-2008 03:16 AM
 
 
Paul Susbauer
Senior Heliman
Location: Spokane Valley, WA

It is an actual Black Products fuse painted in the Hirobo Scheme (Teal, Metallic Blue, White) I just weighed it and including whatever packaging paper is still inside it (its sitting in a box until I can get an E3) it weighs in at 1 lb, 13.25 oz....so a total of 29.25 oz...not bad for a full fuse w/ paint job I had expected it to be much heavier.

--Paul

Ineptitude - If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.
01-31-2008 03:35 AM
 
 
Wayne Mann
Senior Heliman
Location: United States of America

The given weight is with the model ready to fly minus fuel. The Fun Tech StaySee body is very light. The problem is all the nose weight that is need to get the model set up right.


Wayne Mann
01-31-2008 04:00 AM
 
 
Spacey
Senior Heliman
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Hehehe Wayne's helis's weights made my jaw drop the first time I heard it also. I've learned now however that flying styles, blades in particular and the right fuselage of course makes all the difference to any one pilot...not just raw "How much his heli weighs" numbers. I saw Wayne's machine fly in Poland, matter a fact I studied all his flights we were able to attend and the heli goes like a bat out of hell no doubt, autos really decent and hovers great. Would I be able to get his heli to put up great scores with me behind the sticks? Very good question?

I didn't have much luck with my 5,7kg dry Sylphides and homebuilt Super Gracy's at the world...lacked alot of power etc but truthfully we've nailed that down to the @#$%^!@ blades I was using for the most part. Since though I've gone the going ligher route and switched back pod&boom, my Sylphides weigh close to 5.1kg now dry with canopies on which is ballpark for most out the box C-model Sylphides. They fly much better for me now especially since I fly at 4600`ASL. I've heard rumours that Scott Gray's Sylphides with the full gracys on weighed 5,2kg area also but how he does it I don't know and if it's facts I also can not say, it's all hear say. Heck I heard rumours of Itou's Gracyfied Sylphides weighing 4.8kg dry but I find that really hard to believe, I think someone hear said wrong somewhere.

Hirobo Freya's pod&boom are also pretty light apparently at around 4.8kg dry. The Eagle's my team mate was flying with Black Sharks was apparently 5.4kg dry which is also very respectable...they flew great upstairs.
01-31-2008 12:01 PM
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

Weight

My Pro IIKs were almost exactly 12 pounds and still autoed very nicely. The Stratus weighs 10 lbs 8 oz before I put in 6 oz of lead so they are very near 11 pounds right now. I am rebuilding one of them with new upper frames that allow weight to be moved forward so I'm hoping I won't need the lead or at least less lead.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
01-31-2008 12:15 PM
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

Interesting.

Don't get me wrong. I understand that weight alone is not the end-all be-all of a well performing helicopter. I was just wondering what kinds of weights are out there, since the topic came up in private conversation.

At roughly 11.5 pounds, I wasn't aware that my 90 auto'd poorly, but I don't have a whole lot of basis for comparison in 90's, so I was curious.
01-31-2008 03:06 PM
 
 
copterviews
Key Veteran
Location: Myrtle Beach SC

Maybe a ignorant thought here guys but I can rationalize that a "healthy" heli would auto a bit better than a "skinny" one??
At a given weight it makes since that 1. the ship is more stable (obviously) 2. Does not this weight help to keep consistent auto head-speed without increasing the rate of descent?
01-31-2008 04:10 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCHelicopterGuy
Veteran
Location: Michigan

I don't know about the physics of it, but my anecdotal experience is that lighter machines auto better than heavier ones, all other variables being equal.

The biggest difference I notice is how critical the flare is at the bottom. A heavier machine always seems to leave me less room for mistakes in the last 5 feet of the auto. I either land it fairly decently, or smack it down on the landing gear like I dropped a hot rock.

I had a Bergen Intrepid 50 once, and then bought an Evo 50 right after that machine. The Evo used the hardware that I took out of the Intrepid, so it was as close a match as I was going to get. The biggest difference was that the Evo weighed about 1.5 lbs. less than the Intrepid (yes, the Intrepid was one heavy 50... almost 10 pounds). I got to a point where I could auto the Intrepid fairly successfully, but I had to be right on the money with my flare or it would land with a thud.

When I swiched to the Evo, my first half a dozen autos actually gained height at the flare, because I was used to pulling more pitch with the Intrepid to arrest its momentum. Since the Evo was a good bit lighter, it took me a little bit to reacclimate myself to the lower pitch it required.

Point being, I had a lot more reserve at the bottom with the Evo. I could misjudge the trajectory by a wider margin, and still have enough blade inertia in reserve to compensate. The Intrepid - by comparison - had a much smaller window for success. I'll say this, though... learning to auto the Intrepid well made me auto the Evo like a champion.
01-31-2008 04:38 PM
 
 
Wayne Mann
Senior Heliman
Location: United States of America

Hi guys,

The weight of the machine is not the prime consideration when judging the auto capabilities of any given helicopter. My list of important factors in the order of importance is:

Total blade weight and weight distribution (how tip heavy the blades are).

Having the correct amount of positive pitch on top for throttle hold so that the rotor blades make usable lift down to the lowest rotor rpm possible. The Rotor Tech 720s that I use have 14 degrees of pitch on top for throttle hold. If I turn that down to 12 degrees the machines ability to hover at the bottom of an auto diminishes rapidly. Too much pitch can cause problems though.

Blade design. Some blades don't auto well no matter what the weight and pitch dimensions are.

At the bottom of the list is total machine weight and auto technique.

My Caliber ZGs that we use for aerial photography weighs 26 pounds all up weight. It has Rotor Tech 800 mm symmetrical blades at 245 grams and it autos much better than one of my old X-Cell 60s did 20 years ago with wood non weighted rotor blades. The point being that the Caliber ZG has a much higher disk loading, but the design and the weight distribution of the rotor blades makes a huge difference.


Wayne Mann
02-01-2008 08:07 PM
 
 
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