RunRyder - Align 600N gasser conversion

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Align 600N gasser conversion

copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

Quote
Out of curiosity, what thickness of aluminum did you use for your side frames?? Did you use a CNC? Have you considered strategic reinforcement in areas of high stress? Just a thought.

hi iedit4tv
sorry , i missed your post , i am using 2.3mm 6061 T6 alloy , just somthing i had in the shop and it is just 0.3mm thicker than the stock G-10 frames , i have a CNC plasma cutter that will cut the profiles in alloy , but as this is a first off , i have been cheating a bit

, i scanned the original frames into a 2D graphic program and convert the image to a vector graphic , this makes modifying the profile easy , and i print it out to paper 1 to 1 scale and spray glue it to my stock , i use masonite till i am happy with the profile , and then cut them out in alloy , i find that handling a mockup is still the way i enjoy working

once i have some flight time and see the concept is valid i can convert the finished profile to G-code and run a batch on the plasma cutter , but for one offs , i still find it easier to just work them up in a vector graphic and cut it out with a bandsaw

i haven't thought about reinforcing the frame , i would like to get enough air time on the frame to see the failure first

a lot of what i am doing is down and dirty , to get one in the air , and see if the idea is workable , i had been looking at the 600n for a while and thinking it looked very nice , and i was working on putting a G-20 in a R-90 conversion and read a post by fixit , saying that he just put an oversize nitro in his 600 , and that he would like to put a 231 in , i couldn't tell if he was joking or not , but i was thinking , "forget the 231 "

, "put a G-20 in it"

, and it has been like a bad case of 600 fever for me since

, i bounced the idea , back and forth with fixit for a week or two , and then jumped in

i have a pretty good shop and have really gotten to like modding helis in the off season , and this seemed like the perfect project , the forum here is really great to post and share ideas , and i have been having a great time with this on RR , dana

here is a photo of the new frame , and with the stock frame lined up on top , the new frame is 15mm taller and 20mm longer , due to the bottom and front being extended to allow for the larger engine

01-30-2008 07:24 PM

Invrted1
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

I sent a request to Revco an hour ago asking for some mod .7 27 tooth stock and have not heard back yet. I have my fingers crossed!

01-30-2008 08:35 PM

jackheli
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver - Canada

Did you maintain the distances from the servos to the bellcranks and overall geometry in the CCPM configuration?

Can't see from the pictures...

Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new - Albert Einstein

01-30-2008 08:47 PM

copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Invrted1
good work! , i will have mine crossed also

hi Jack
i am not sure if you can see in the photo above but i have reworked the collective servo layout , i dumped the bellcrank and have repositioned the servos to work the swash directly , the aileron and pitch servos are in the back now , and the bays are 9mm closer to the main shaft , the elevator servo is in the front now and the bay is 26mm closer , i am running Century CNC machined servo arms that are 28mm of throw

the stock bellcranks are 31mm of throw , so with no other changes i will have reduced my collective by roughly 10 percent , but i am thinking that for my ability level , -13.5 ~ +13.5 degrees of collective pitch will be OK

, i didn't really see the advantage of the push pull to the longer bellcrank over just having the servos closer and longer servo arms , i guess i will find out

, dana

01-30-2008 09:09 PM

jackheli
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver - Canada

Quote
repositioned the servos to work the swash directly

Man, that is really too bad!

Quote
i didn't really see the advantage of the push pull to the longer bellcrank over just having the servos closer and longer servo arms , i guess i will find out

Direct servo control makes for a tighter setup with less slop at the expense of working the servos harder and making them extremely susceptible to damage on a crash.

I think for most pilots the locked in feel, which is really not that easy to spot, does not make up for the extra load and exposure to damage.

It is useless to go direct control if you are adding expo anyways, which most all pilots do ...

Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new - Albert Einstein

01-30-2008 11:22 PM

iedit4tv
Senior Heliman
Location: Santa Clarita, California

Thanks for not forgetting me... LOL!! Man you do nice work! Having fun watching your project!

Thanks,
Mike

Cut - Print - It's a wrap!

01-31-2008 12:23 AM

copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

Quote
Direct servo control makes for a tighter setup with less slop at the expense of working the servos harder and making them extremely susceptible to damage on a crash.

hi jack
personally i prefer direct servo control to the swash , and i disagree with the servo having to work harder and being more susceptible to damage , i know companies like Vario use it on their machines , and rather than get into a discussion about the supposed merits of each system on this thread , i will be happy to just , agree to disagree

i do appreciate your pointing this out , as it shows me , that some people prefer bellcrank , and some prefer direct

it would be easy to just copy the layout Align has for the people who would prefer a bellcrank setup , as all the parts for it are provided in the Align kit , and i would be happy , if i decide to produce kits in the future , to carry both styles and leave it to the buyers preference

for this machine , which is really just a testbed for the viability of the G-20 in the 600n it hardly matters

, and of course i am setting it up the way i prefer

, kindest regards ,

dana

01-31-2008 12:45 AM

copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Mike

thanks

, i have been having a good time getting to post my progress reports

i wanted to mention , another option i have , is there are cutting services that will work with CF , and i have been seeing the cost of smaller high speed mills comming down , which would let me work with CF here in the shop , so many projects , so little time

, thanks again , dana

01-31-2008 12:52 AM

ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

I prefer the direct route, its a much simpler , tighter setup if the frame designer is clever enough to work out the correct geometry.
You have really peaked my interest here Dana, the projects you undertake are impressive.

Personally i am not a fan of CF frames, i much prefer G10 board as it absorbs some vibration, is much cheaper and easier to work with.

Keep it up and i am looking forward to the next installment.

we can never have too many, can we ?

01-31-2008 01:07 AM

jfint
Senior Heliman
Location: Simi Valley, CA

I actually prefer direct control on the larger machines, these servos are usually very well built, and there are still several ball links existing to act as a buffer to the servos. If this were not the case would the really larger machines like vario and air star get away with direct links? I've seen a few mongoose crashes now, including my own, and I still haven't seen any servo damage.

01-31-2008 01:20 AM

HOMEPAGE

jfint
Senior Heliman
Location: Simi Valley, CA

whoa thats fast moving thread, 3 replies while I was writing!

01-31-2008 01:21 AM

HOMEPAGE

copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi ozace
yes

, exactly

, alloy , CF AND G-10

, i can't tell you how tempted i was to fly the masonite frames

, it is easy to just start running the " what's my favorite setup program " and forget how diversified the hobby really is , ask 5 heli guys what the best setup is and get , lets see

yeah , ten answers

, what i have learned over the course of RR and the hobby is that all ten answers are correct too

, i think that is one of the things that is so great about RC modeling , and being able to get on the forums and share the hobby with people from all over the world , with the one common interest is very cool

, thanks again , dana

01-31-2008 01:23 AM

ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

In this case Dana, the only correct answer is yours, as you are the one doing all the work. Anyhow, go back to the dungeon and get more done

(i reckon masonite would fly well until it got fuel logged))

we can never have too many, can we ?

01-31-2008 01:27 AM

copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi jfint

LOL , it is , i just had to back read up to your post

, dana

01-31-2008 01:27 AM

jfint
Senior Heliman
Location: Simi Valley, CA

Quote
hi jfint LOL , it is , i just had to back read up to your post , dana

Sure sign that something exciting is happening!

01-31-2008 01:28 AM

HOMEPAGE

darkfa8
Key Veteran
Location: Eatontown, NJ, USA

this project looks great and it could evolve even further once Align releases the 700 heli. Though depending on how much of it's layout corresponds to the 600, most of your existing work might swap right into the 700.

- Dan G. -

02-01-2008 04:01 AM

HOMEPAGE

Invrted1
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

I still have not heard back from Revco. Anyone know any other source for pinions? It would be good if someone can find some before Copper gets done with the machine.

02-01-2008 04:10 AM

Fixit
Veteran
Location: West Yorkshire UK

I’ve just come across this Vario 23 pinion in my workshop, it’s not a 27 granted and I can’t find any info on it but I though it might be worth looking into.

02-01-2008 11:57 AM

HOMEPAGE

j.8
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark

Hi Fixit

It looks like this one

Source Vario

Regards Bo

02-01-2008 12:30 PM

copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Peter
do you have an overall OD for that gear , i can figure the mod off the diameter

i spent yesterday getting the servos in and hooked up to the swash , today i have to run into the LHS today to get some thick CA , Align wants the ball-link balls glued in where they are in plastic , i will try to get some photos up this evening , (knock knock) , i can say i am very happy with the servo setup , virtually no play and glassy smooth

thanks , dana

02-01-2008 12:42 PM

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Align 600N gasser conversion

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