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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > Thunder Tiger Redline .53
 
 
baddraptor
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

Andy, do you have a pic of how you modified the needle?? Mine is doing the same thing. I have also noticed the my throttle barrel is becoing hard to move at a certain point. It isnt sticky but feels like it may have some bad machine works like a burr or a spot starting to wear. It is very notchy.

Other than that, with the Mp5 it is a rocket. My high end is at 2 and 5clicks out and the low is 1/8 turn richer than stock. My flight times have now increased to 11 minutes which I am very happy about. I just dont like this lean spot in the middle. The thing that gets me, is it seems to be intermitent from flight to flight.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
02-24-2008 05:47 PM
 
 
v58 fuy
Senior Heliman
Location: UK - Tunbridge Wells, Kent

My TT53 has performed very well so far, with a lot of power.

I'm not sure what kind of issue you have with the throttle barrel, but remember there is a spring under it to keep located properly - maybe you can feel this when you turn it by hand, mine appears fine and smooth.

The engine likes to rev and seems to have a wide powerband. I did experience the leaning you described just once but it was after leaning the low needle quite a bit. This was over compensating for a rich main needle, and once the low was richened I've not had any problems at all with leaning out.

I think the main needle is not very sensitive until you get close to the optimum, but the low is reasonably sensitive particularly if run too lean.

After about 3 gallons and with the weather warming slightly, running 20% nitro and MP5 my main needle is a little over 1 3/4 turns with the idle 1/8 lean of factory. I can hold my finger on the backplate pretty much forever, the engine cuts back down to an idle straight away, and temps of landing are around 185-190F.

David
02-24-2008 09:43 PM
 
 
baddraptor
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

I realize that there is a spring, but sometimes it almost locks in place. At the field yesterday, I took the linkage off and could not get the barrel to turn until I started pushin in on it. Defintely not smooth as it was. Something is not right. I have over 3 gallons through mine and this problem seems to be getting worse.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
02-24-2008 11:48 PM
 
 
mr-amgoo
Heliman
Location: EDINBURGH, SCOTLAND

washer on or off

Hi guy's just about to install engine. do i leave wsher on or off

fly till you die
02-25-2008 12:12 AM
 
 
arceye
Veteran
Location: UK

MrAmgoo:

I first installed with the washer and clutch was to high in the bell for my liking so I removed it, also don't use the nut that is supplied with the engine as it is very likely that it will strip the moment you put any effort into tightening it, I am not refering to gorilla tight here just fairly tight is enough to strip the nut as the material it's made of is very soft.
It has been posted on here that the nut has been changed to a better quality nut but there may be some of the first generation soft nuts still around.


baddraptor:

Unfortunately I didn't take a pic of it before and after but it is probably not a requirment adjusting the needle will probably more than enough

Here is a link to the original mod done on the original TT50
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...hlight=tt50+mod
BUT what I did was nowhere near the amount of taper as what is shown in that link.
If you look at the needle as it is standard all I did was remove a very tiny amount of material (and I mean a very tiny amount).

I would not recommend even attempting this unless you can replicate the lean point at will using nothing but throttle curves (no governer) and note exactly where it is then on the bench replicate the exact throttle position at the time it happens and also see if it is exactly where the needle enters the spray bar. Unless all of these of these variables can be replicated and all are shown to be as described then DO NOT attempt it as it may well be something else that is a miss and it could well be that your tuning is a tad off.

Because as we all know there are so many factors that come into tuning this was the solution that I found needed to be done for my engine and as I said it may be an isolated problem where my engine might have been a friday afternoon build on the factory so it was not put together with the same accuracy of others.

Andy


Kasama Head :(
The Blingiest DOWNGRADE a Raptor can have
02-25-2008 12:18 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Depends on the heli, do what your heli's manual tells you to do.

I got to run my Redline for the first time today, put 3 tanks through it in my 600N. Great engine, fired within a second of pushing the button on the starter, and stayed running through numerous autos, and idle periods on the ground.

I would have flown it more, but mine also has a sticky throttle, after the third tank, I filled up and went to start again,a nd doing my normal prestart check, the throttle wasn't moving. I could feel the servo buzzing, so I pulled the linkage and lo and behold, my carb barrel was stuck at the full closed position where I stopped it at the end of the previous tank. Took a bit of force to get it moving again. I'll probably pull the engine this week and take the carb apart to see what I can find.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
02-25-2008 12:21 AM
 
 
baddraptor
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

Quote 
Hi guy's just about to install engine. do i leave wsher on or off


What Heli?? raptor, no washer. Trex use the washer.

I can tune through the lean spot. Its the sticky barrel that has me worried. I think my problem is more from than that than being lean. Mine sticks at mid throttle and wont pull down

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
02-25-2008 12:23 AM
 
 
arceye
Veteran
Location: UK

badraptor: just for the hell of it remove the engine and slightely loosen the bults that hold the carb on and i dare bet the tight spot on the carb barrel will go.

Andy


Kasama Head :(
The Blingiest DOWNGRADE a Raptor can have
02-25-2008 12:28 AM
 
 
baddraptor
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

Andy, I tried that. It didn't help. The funny thing is, now that the engine is totally cooled of, it is as smooth as silk. It seems the only time it gets like that is when its hot. I am going to try and polish the barrel a little to see if that helps.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
02-25-2008 12:46 AM
 
 
Dino Spadaccini
Key Veteran
Location: USA

carb

keep me posted on what you find out why the carbs sticking thanks Dino


look at the race where the screw rides let me know what you find there Dino

Team Thunder Tiger
Team Futaba
CY Enterprises
Morgan fuel
Rev max
TEAM MAPTERGY
02-25-2008 04:07 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Funky Trex
Key Veteran
Location: Westerville, OH - USA

My carb was kind of rough when I got it. I took it apart and oiled it and it helped smooth it a little, but not much. Has anyone tried running it without the spring? Is that a bad idea? When I remove the spring the carb operates much smoother

I haven't run this engine yet, just trying to prevent any possible problems.

02-25-2008 04:29 AM
 
 
HeliPhil
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Hi Andy

I ran my TT53 for the first time in a heli on Saturday ( It had 1/2 gall on the bench with a prop first) and I also noticed the lean spot when I turned off the governor. I will take a look at the needle as I agree that the taper / bluntness is asking for trouble. It is interesting that the needle is also adjustable.

Do you have photo's of it unassembled???

http://www.olsonracing.co.uk
02-25-2008 11:30 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
OK HELI
Senior Heliman
Location: Enid,OK-USA

I just got my new TT53 in and replaced my TT50. I have no experience with the OS motors but it was like dropping a V8 in a pinto. I absolutely love it. I found it easy to tune it was just to bad that I have dumb thumbs and crashed before running 1 full tank through. oh well time to upgrade other parts. can't wait to get it in the air next weekend.

Raptor 50 Titan with DX7, GY401, and TT Redline 53 is Awsome!
02-25-2008 02:16 PM
 
 
Dino Spadaccini
Key Veteran
Location: USA

spring

i am think that trying it with out the spring might be good idea, as this will not put any force on the screw that hold the crab in place

Team Thunder Tiger
Team Futaba
CY Enterprises
Morgan fuel
Rev max
TEAM MAPTERGY
02-26-2008 01:52 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

Guys,

You need to be cautious about running without that spring. The spring is there to ensure the barrel doesn't "dither" on the barrel screw and cause premature wear as the barrel rotates back and forth. Once that wear starts, the barrel will float slightly in and out and cause variations in fuel mixture, esp. in the midrange. Point being, there is a design basis for that screw's presence. Proceed with caution as you experiment, and pull the barrel out along the way to check for excessive wear.

FWIW,

Ben Minor
02-26-2008 02:51 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

I wonder if the spring tension isn't too strong, and that's what's causing the problem. Perhaps finding a weaker spring would solve the issue. I haven't had a chance to pull mine out yet, but I will look into that in the next couple days.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
02-26-2008 03:24 AM
 
 
Dino Spadaccini
Key Veteran
Location: USA

thanks

Ben thanks i didnt think of that Dino ok so leave the spring in

Team Thunder Tiger
Team Futaba
CY Enterprises
Morgan fuel
Rev max
TEAM MAPTERGY
02-26-2008 03:24 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
OK HELI
Senior Heliman
Location: Enid,OK-USA

a friend brought me his 60 to help him tune it and for the longest time we thaught it had a gasket leak cause it would rev up and down over and over again pretty fast at an idle..but come to find out the spring was loose causing the barrel to move in and out just that little bit. you put your finger on it and push in ever so lightly and it would idle fine so we pujlled the spring and stretched it and it worked great....
without the spring holding pressure(its not much) the vibration will make it move in and out..

Raptor 50 Titan with DX7, GY401, and TT Redline 53 is Awsome!
02-26-2008 01:58 PM
 
 
Rockohaulic
Elite Veteran
Location: Valencia, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

Spring

Mine was sticking last weekend, so I dropped the motor and also looked into removing the spring. It seemed to move freer without the spring on the bench, but then I noticed there was a little play in that the barrel could move in and out slightly at any given position. I didn't like this so I decided to put the spring back in.

But what I did before lubing everything up really good, including the spring, was to slightly increase the length of the spring, so it would keep a more constant load against the back of the barrel. When it all went back together, it moved very smoothly!

I used a very light coat of tri-flow grease on the barrel too. A very light coat. It really moves smooth right now, so I hope it's OK to have this tri-flow grease on it!

I got a helicopter for my girlfriend,
It was a good trade!
02-26-2008 05:14 PM
 
 
Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

The idea of increasing the spring tension has good basis in history. In the "old" days, the Supertigre carbs that we used with OS engines were notorious for either shearing of the carb screw or prematurely wearing that screw and/or the barrel until ST finally learned to harden both. It became a general SOP for many to increase the length of that spring just a bit to keep the barrel more "quiet" (less jittering) while it rode in and out on the screw under normal running vibration.

Having seen a few pics of premature barrel and screw wear on some OS carbs IE the 60K's and M's, I always now pull that screw on new engines and fill the screw's channel with grease. If it's dry, it's effectively no better lubricated than dry metal on metal, since a precision machined barrel and throttle body bore aren't going to let much if any fuel by to provide lubrication.

Ben Minor
02-26-2008 06:57 PM
 
 
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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > Thunder Tiger Redline .53
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