RunRyder - Swash Leveler Thingy

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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Swash Leveler Thingy

Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

Is there a tool or jig that you can use to check the level-ness or degree of level-tivity of the swashplate?

IOW someways other than just eye-balling it? I think my eye might be crooked since I can't seem to hit it dead on. Heli always needs left/right alieron trim to get it to hover level.

01-23-2008 09:33 PM

rccarguy
Senior Heliman
Location: Boston MA

Yes, they are readily available from most LHS that sell Align Trex tools and stuff, http://www.helidirect.com/product_i...roducts_id=2903

or you can do like I did and make one, this what mine looks like...

A short chunk of 6061 alloy on the lathe and about 30 minutes time is all you need. I don't know if the standard Align one will work on a HBK, it has three arms to touch the swash where the ball links sit, the one I made is full circle and will work on almost any swash that sits on a 5mm mainshaft.

You do have to remove the rotor head assembly from the mainshaft to use it, but it's extremely accurate, you won't get closer to level with any other method.

I learned to fly on a Trex, I learned to crash on a Blade CP...

01-23-2008 09:48 PM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Ya know, that's cool and all. But I'm not really sure a "level swash" is all its cracked up to be. I'm no expert, but when I levelved my swash, my HBK2 required a fair bit of input to keep in the same place in a hover. Most notably, it liked to back right in to me. Obviously that's because its tail heavy. To address that the swash is tilted slightly forward. Now it holds the same spot fairly well. So for me, a level swash is only a starting point. Get into hover and correct the tendancies by adjusting the ball links. Given that, a perfectly level swash isn't all that interesting unless the heli is perfectly balanced to start with.

01-23-2008 10:05 PM

rccarguy
Senior Heliman
Location: Boston MA

Quote
Given that, a perfectly level swash isn't all that interesting unless the heli is perfectly balanced to start with.

That is the ultimate goal, get the CG right and the swash can be set level. Problem is getting the CG to be where it needs to be, took me a LONG time to get all the bits arranged on the Trex so that it was stable with a level swash, I'm still tinkering with the HBK2.

You are absolutely correct that the HBK needs to have some amount of forward trim to be steady in stock form, that's one of the reasons I want a CF frame, to be able to get the CG to where it needs to be.

I learned to fly on a Trex, I learned to crash on a Blade CP...

01-23-2008 10:10 PM

Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

Gregor, it's something else to obsess about. What's the point if you can't worry yourself to death about every little freakin' detail

Quote
you won't get closer to level with any other method.

I MIGHT be able to get it closer...After I posted this I remembered my dial indicator out in the shop. If I put it in its stand and place the measuring tip on one point on the swash I can then slide it around and compare at 120* intervals. This will tell me the level-tivity to the nearest .001"

That should be obsessive enough for anyone.

01-23-2008 10:11 PM

tutelar-rc
Key Veteran
Location: Nobleton, Ontario - Canada

I agree that getting the swash very close to level is important.

Fore/Aft and CG is particularly important as you move to inverted flight. Otherwise the "trim" changes when you are inverted - does not help the learning curve...

Keep in mind for Left/Right, the swash will have some right cyclic to counter the translating tendency of the tail rotor. This does not change in inverted flight.

01-23-2008 10:52 PM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Quote
Gregor, it's something else to obsess about.

True, but it comes to the swash, I think its the wrong thing to obsess over. What I obsess over is what happens to my bird when I let go of the right stick. If its constantly wondering off in one direction or I'm constantly holding the stick off-center, then the swash gets adjusted regardless of how level or not it is. I think actually my swash is both titled forward and a tiny bit off to the left. But it hovers nicely.

01-23-2008 11:00 PM

slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

Having the CG setup right is the first thing that needs to be done with any heli, otherwise your fighting the balance and will never get a good hover. The second item to address is a level swash like tutelar rc stated, once you try inverted, a flip, even a roll and loop will be a real challange... Try to balance a broom on your fingers, until you get the balance correct your fighting the weight of the broom head.. It's the same theory with a heli if the balance is correct you won't have half the problems flying that I see posted here and all the other forums....
As I always say get the heli set up mechanically perfect first and most of your flying problems will go away....

Tom..... No "D" flying....

01-23-2008 11:01 PM

Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

The voice of reason! Well said.

01-23-2008 11:01 PM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Quote
Having the CG setup right is the first thing that needs to be done with any heli,

This just stings all the more. Our little budget heli comes tail heavy with no easy mod to resolve this issue. I wasn't aware/hadn't thought of the issues when going inverted. My swash corrections suddenly double the effect weight of the tail heaviness. I guess I need one of the kits from Xtreme before I try inverted.

01-23-2008 11:08 PM

DougsRC
Elite Veteran
Location: MA

Gregor, May I suggest getting your battery as far forward as possible----even if it means gettin a bigger canopy to fit the battery. I made an extension tray for the bats and it made a difference in flight. I wouldn't try inverted until the CG was right and you were 100 percent comfartable in all orientations upright.

01-23-2008 11:16 PM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Doug,

Thanks, I've been looking at the options. I've tried moving my battery as far forward as possible and it didn't make enough of a difference to reconfigure the battery location. I was also looking at both a battery extender as well as the fabricated block + Trex tray that Blusaber is using. The latter seeming to be the best option. I was about ready to put that plan in action when it came out that Xtreme was going to have two different frame options that should help address the CG issues.

I wasn't aware of the issues going inverted, but it makes sense. I have no imeadiate plans to go inverted. I have 3 orientations down in RL and 4 in the SIM. After I get the 4 solid in RL, the next thing I'm going to work on is backward flight. It was between that and learning to hover inverted. After months hover practice I really needed a change in pace.

01-24-2008 12:03 AM

Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

I'm using the 1800 mA batt and it balances dead on.

01-24-2008 12:17 AM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

ditto bigger battery 2100mah fixed mine but not sure its light enough to go inverted. But since not many scale helis fly inverted

I dont care about a 1/2 to whole turn down on the swash. And greggor I got a a challenge for you you apparently havent thought of yet. SIDEWAYS FLIGHT its a blast actually watching the gy240 hold the tail as you slide the heli by you sideways.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 12:49 AM

HOMEPAGE

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Quote
SIDEWAYS FLIGHT

Good one! I'm already doing that. With a big area and only three orientions, no banking skills to speak of, you get really bored and try everything you can doing it tail-in. Last time I was doing it, speed was pretty fast, and I was pitching up mostly sideways to slow down at each end. Any other suggestions? Please don't say piro's

01-24-2008 12:54 AM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

Im not sure if were on the same page?
I mean like skidding a bicycle sideways all the way past you down the field from left to right.

And piro's are the easiest thing to do.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 01:21 AM

HOMEPAGE

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Quote
I mean like skidding a bicycle sideways all the way past you down the field from left to right.

Yes, that's what I meant. FSF (Fast sideways flight).

I have piro baggage, need more sim time

01-24-2008 01:39 AM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

after the first one you'll feel so stupid for not doing them sooner. I was confused. If you can do Fast sideways flight piros are ridiculously easy. just move the left stick to the left or right stop when your tired of spinning.

I learned them with the blade cp pro when the tailmotors died. And those were landing autorotation piros trying to land without damage.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 01:46 AM

HOMEPAGE

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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Swash Leveler Thingy

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