RunRyder - Royal tail shakes

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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Royal tail shakes

marsBme
Heliman
Location: San Francisco

I'm having the hardest time getting my E 8 Royal to fly smooth. I've measured the flybar, then tried balancing the flybar, upgraded to the aluminum rotor head, put on the Ikarus carbon blades which I had to severely balance, checked the belt tension, balanced the tail blades, adjusted the 240 gyro, rolled all shafts and adjusted the lead/ lag blade tension. Despite all my efforts, the tail shakes violently.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

"make air submit"

01-17-2008 06:26 AM

HOMEPAGE

BeltFedBrowning
Senior Heliman
Location: Albany, MO USA

My two eco's both fly with no vibration. One has Ikarus carbon tail blades and the other has stock tail blades. None of the tail blades have ever been balanced. I have Ikarus GF flatbottom blades on one of them- minimal balancing needed.
How did you balance the main blades? Did you find the balance point of each blade and correct that first? I use MAH carbons and I didn't even balance the latest set I am using.
Are the blades tracking while in a hover? If one blade is higher than the other it can cause a vibration.
I use a ruler to center the flybar and have never balanced it. I have a aluminum head on one and the stock head on the other.
Do you have any bent shafts? All shafts are soft stock, feathering shaft, main shaft, tail transmission shaft, and tail output shaft. A hard landing will bend the stock shafts. A bent mainshaft is very hard to see. Sometimes I have to put the old mainshaft next to a new one and roll on a piece of glass together while looking for gaps appearing between them. Be sure to mark the old one so you won't get them mixed up.
Are your main blade grip bolts too tight on the blades? The blades should fold when the heli is held on its side and shaken once but should hold when on its side and not shaken. If the blades are too tight it will vibrate.
Is the head speed high enough? what motor and battery are you using?
Are you flying off concrete? The buffeting caused by the hard surface when the blades are below +1 degree pitch will vibrate the heli to pieces. Try taking off from grass and see if it is better. Let me know if I can be of assistance I have been flying eco's since 1992.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSbs-Rqc6CI

01-17-2008 11:33 PM

marsBme
Heliman
Location: San Francisco

I've done everything you've said...proper tracking, rolled all shafts, adjusted lead lag, using GF blades and balanced them, upgraded to metal head, measured flybar to be equal distance, fly off grass. Do you think it helps to use the tail boom support? Frank from Ikarus said it wasn't necessary.
Thanks for your help.

"make air submit"

01-18-2008 05:30 AM

HOMEPAGE

BeltFedBrowning
Senior Heliman
Location: Albany, MO USA

Did you put each blade on something and mark on the leading edge where they balanced like a teeter todder? The marks should be within 1mm between the blades. Weight should only be added to the blades at the center or balance point of the light blade.
I had problems when I didn't use the tail boom support, magnified with the plastic frame. Notice the tailboom support even with the fuselage. Is the lead lag on the tail blades ok? Have you ever lubricated the swash plate and the pitch compensator slider on the main shaft, and the pitch slider on the tail shaft? I use a drop of synthetic engine oil once in a while.
Are the flybar paddles level with the flybar arms? I have had hardened main shafts bend so I couldn't tell rolling by themselves but next to a straight edge the bend was evident. Do you have a frame strengthener in the frame ahead of the mainshaft? I made the frame strengthener for this heli out of 1/4" hobby pine and used old servo hold down screws through the frame sides. This is the best upgrade you can do.
The pics are of my custom made eco royal 3D. It has a stacked carbon fiber frame and JR skids. It is crazy on a 4s lipo.

01-18-2008 06:11 AM

marsBme
Heliman
Location: San Francisco

Wow...me likey!Nice heli frame. Did you make that? What mah batts are you using and how long is ur flight time?
I'll try your suggestions and get back to you.
Thanks!

"make air submit"

01-18-2008 07:34 PM

HOMEPAGE

BeltFedBrowning
Senior Heliman
Location: Albany, MO USA

I made the frame out of 1.5 mm carbon fiber. You would not believe how stiff this frame is. It has gone down a few times and has never damaged the frame. I am using Team Orion Avionics 3200 4s lipo for 3d and a thunder power 4000 3s for lazy flying. The thunder power can fly about 20 min if I lay off the throttle. The 4s 3200 will go 10-15 min of 3D. Did you notice the silver aluminum head? I hate red anodized parts on the head so I removed the color with a little oven cleaner and sandblasting. I think the skids are JR 30 size with gasser rubber shock absorbers attaching them to the frame. This is what the Eco was supposed to look like.
Do double check the shafts, a bend is hard to spot. If I can't tell I will mark the old one and just try a new shaft and see if this helps. Don't rule out the tail transmission shaft next to the main gear, if it is the original one it might be bent. They sell a hardened replacement for it too. The tail blade grip bearings are bad about failing since there are no thrust bearings there. I keep a set handy.
This is a video of some lazy flying on the thunder power 4000mah 3cell lipo

01-18-2008 11:11 PM

mjdee14
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville , TN

BFB..

I like what you did with the ECO...looks nice and gives it that updated look of the Royal... Modlers enginuity nevers ceases to amaze me... Never understood why everyone was so mad in the "Flight of the Phoenix" when they found out the guy was a modeler !!

MB...did your Royal EVER fly withou vibs or is this from the very beggining?

Does it vibrate with the main blades off ? If so then something is bent...

Have you tried adjusting the belt looser, tighter? is the belt correct or is it twisted in the tail boom?

Try to isolate by running with no main blades, then no tail blades, disconnect the tail belt, run with main blades no tail, etc. any combination you can think of that will get to a point with no vibs.

Do the vibs ever go away with increase of throttle either up or down?

I have been flying the ECo for a while and found all my vibs , other than the "Chicken dance" were caused by a bent something...and as bfb said the main shaft is very hard to tell sometimes.

good luck, keep us posted of your findings....and out of track blades will definately cause a vibration, and all the shafts will check good...thats why I sadi try it without blades.

Mike... Blade CP, HBCP2, Revo w/belt drive, Zoom 400, Eco 8, Hurricane 550, DX7 2.4

01-22-2008 01:32 PM

BeltFedBrowning
Senior Heliman
Location: Albany, MO USA

Thanks for the compliment on the carbon Eco. I just hated the way the ECO 8 just slung the batteries under the helicopter and the skids were very fragile. I did not have a canopy for this one until they came out with the Royal! I agree that removing vibrations is just a process of elimination. Don't give up and when in doubt-test flight-

01-22-2008 01:58 PM

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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Royal tail shakes

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