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PowerHelis . JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies

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Scale Model RC Helicopters > Flybarless 700mm 10S4P Jet Ranger OH-58A Build Post (HeliCommand Sys)
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

The real fun starts when you set it up !!


Just pulling your leg !

It is easy to set up provided you have a laptop to bring to the field. I had to buy one just for the helicommand. Can't see myself going to the field, test fly and go home again to change the setup and back to test again. I fly 3 helis with scale rotor heads and the helicommand works fine, well at least for hovering and slow circuits for now.

Good Luck !
03-17-2008 05:26 PM
 
 
HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Hi wilerbee

Could you give my some tips, you think would be helpful to someone new to Helicommand?

What are some do's and don't(s)....

Thanks

Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
03-17-2008 11:57 PM
 
 
HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Hi Folks

Here is a video screen shot of my HeliCommand configuration...

Does it look correct????



Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
03-18-2008 02:34 AM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Hs10,

I use slider switch for turning on and off helicommand as well as switching between the stabilization modes, I recommend you should try this too. The slider will allow different sensitivity settings so if it hunts you can immediately turn it down or off. What radio are you using ? I run it with JR 9XII. I did not like the auto trim function so I did not connect the Aux wire. I just trim the heli with helicommand off then land and press the set button to centre all controls. You should test this before you fly. Look at the swashplate with the helicommand off, then switch on either horizontal or position and see if the swahplate moves. If the setting is right there should be no change. This is just my preference. You don't have to follow it.

Good Luck
03-18-2008 12:30 PM
 
 
HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Hi wilerbee

Thanks for the great information, very helpful in understanding the helicommand...

I am using a Futaba T9CHP with an 8 channel Spektrum module...

I had configured the slider on the bottom left of the radio for switching modes, but it was suggested that start with the 3 position switch first... I really like the idea of the slider switch... My radio beeps on centering...

I have the auto-trim connected, but I would like to better understand the positive and negative aspects of using it...

Can you give me some details about the auto-trim function???

You are correct, preflight testing is a must... There is some serious crash potential...

With the Helicommand slider "off" does the swashplate provide any corrections if you move the helicopter... I am using the Helicommand Rigid on a 2 blade flybarless rotor system...

Is you heli flybarless???

I am trying to understand the difference between preflight testing between the flybar and flkybarless version...

Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
03-18-2008 11:21 PM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

HS10,

I feel more comfortable with the slider so I started off not using the 3 position switch at all. With the 3 position switch it is either off or on 100% gain, too risky for me. If hunting occurs on both elevator and aileron axis at the same time, there is no control ! Crash potential !

Regarding the auto trim, you will have to hover the heli STEADY for at least 8 seconds for it to learn the neutral position while depressing the switch (usually configured to the trainer switch), try doing that in a head wind with a flybarless head !! Maybe my flying just isn't that good but I rather not chance it. Another crash potential. I like to take out all the non human related risk out of the loop as much as possible, because that is out of my control. The good thing with auto trim is that you don't need to set the neutral manually.

The helicommand, however, is very easy to use and please don't let my cautious tone deter you.

I fly 3 helis that are flybarless, two 3 bladed heads and one 2 bladed head. All with helicommand. Go check out my gallery for photos. I am also building an OH-58 but the D version. Have done the fuselage 3 years ago, got into electric and intend on making it electric too.


Oh, Flybarless heads don't like strong winds !

Let me know how your testing went.

Good Luck
03-19-2008 04:39 PM
 
 
HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Hi Folks...

Did the first rotor spool-up test tonight...

Tracked the blades, smooth spool-up, minimal ground resonance...

I let the rotor run at normal speed @ zero pitch on the ground for a while...

I noticed that the rotor disk seems to ungulate slightly... Kind of like a slow deliberate wobble... Could be some drifting from the gyro package...

As a safety precaution I installed my old training gear...

I started to input positive pitch and got one twitch in the cyclic input... It was serious enought that I reduced pitch and did a shut-down...

Question: What are some possible causes???

- I am using a Spektrum radio set-up, should be somewhat fault tolerant.
- Is the RIGID gain wrong, what should it be?
- I don't think it had anything to do with the ESC...

Any ideas???? THANKS

Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
03-20-2008 01:29 AM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

HS10,

Sounds like the Helicommand is working ! This "WOBBLE" is normal. All my helis does this just before take off. Apparently this condition also occurs even if helicommand is not installed, but to a lesser extent. Go into the helicommand program and under RIGID submenu, one of the option will be for the adjustment of this "WOBBLE". (I don't know which one off hand, but put the mouse on the option and there will be instructions for that option.)
With the TWITCH, maybe gain is too high.Is helicommand on hor or pos mode ? I forgot where I read this, but I start my hovering with Helicommand hor and pos mode off and then switch them on in the hover, I also switch it off before landing. Helicommand itself is always working just the hold modes are selectable.
Maybe you should start thinking about switching to using the slider switch ?

Good Luck

ps Testing at night? indoors ? Don't turn on position mode !! You'll crash ! Put thick tape to cover up the sensor window !
03-20-2008 03:04 AM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

HS,

Forgot to ask, did you try the flybarred or flybarless head ?
03-20-2008 03:10 AM
 
 
HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Hi wilerbee

Thanks for getting back to me...

I am flying a flybarless setup... The base helicopter is a Logo 24 running 700mm blades... I use a NEU motor, CC 110 ESC and a 10S4P 8000 mh lipo battery...

I really appreciate the warning about using the position mode in bad conditions... Don't want a crash!!!

The slider would be great for troubleshooting and finding the sweet-spot...

I think my challenge will be that in the rigid mode stabilization is aways on...

Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
03-20-2008 03:28 AM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

HS,

Actually in Rigid mode the stabilization mode isn't always on. If the switch is in the middle/off position then it fly just like a flybarred heli. The rigid mode is only always correcting the phase timing of the swashplate. Did you do the timing setting for the 2 blade head ? i.e. place the blades along the boom and adjust the swash driver until no movement can been seen when applying elevator ?

Good Luck again.
03-20-2008 01:48 PM
 
 
HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Hi wilerbee

THIS IS GREAT INFORMATION!!!!

Please tell me more...

Quote 
Did you do the timing setting for the 2 blade head ? i.e. place the blades along the boom and adjust the swash driver until no movement can been seen when applying elevator?

I never did this, please tell me the steps...

Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
03-20-2008 11:34 PM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

HS,

Go to this link and read up !

www.starwoodmodels.com/products/of/multihelp.php
03-21-2008 02:56 PM
 
 
HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Hi wilerbee

Thnaks for the link it helps me better understand...

I read it over carefully... I think I got the key points, but I would like to know the steps you took with a two bladed rotorhead?

Thanks...

Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
03-22-2008 01:34 AM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

HS,


I 'll take a photo of the swash plate. It should hopefully help to show you what I mean. I'll post it tomorrow. In the meantime you can read this---:

http://airwolfrc.com
03-22-2008 04:10 AM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Sorry about the focus but hopefully it'll show you the relationship between the swash driver and the pitch linkage. They are 90 degrees to each other and the main blades are parallel/along the boom. The swash driver ball link is directly in line with the front ball link on the outer swash plate.

03-22-2008 05:31 PM
 
 
HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Hi wilerbee

Thanks for being patient with me, I am starting to better understand the flybarless technology....

Here are the steps I used to adjust my phase timing.

(01) Aligned the main rotor blades so one blade was accuratly aligned with the tail boom.

(02) Turned on the radio and receiver.

(03) Moved the "elevator" and watched both main rotor blades for movement.

(04) Adjusted the "swash driver" by loosening it and turning it about the axis of the main rotor shaft.

(05) Did the adjustment many times until I pitch movement was minimized and equal.

NOTE: When I first tested the "roll" / "aileron" one blade moved significantly more then the other. When I was finished the process, pitch movement was minimal and equal between both blades.

The small amount of movement that remains I believe is slight variation in CCPM mixing due to variation between servos.

Once again thanks for your help... Am I "on track"????





Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
03-23-2008 01:52 AM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

HS,
Yep you're on track. Slight movement is acceptable. Now you can go try the spool up again. If you want to be absolutely sure you can weigh down the heli with sandbags or weights and spin up to hover. then try giving elevator and aileron cyclic to check the response.

Good Luck again.
03-23-2008 04:14 PM
 
 
HS10
Senior Heliman
Location: Elk River, MN

Hi wilerbee

Put it into the air tonight...

Everything seems pretty stable but it will take some time to get used to the new feel... Different from the old flybar...

The one thing I noticed is that it really wants to fly!!! Just a light touch to the collective pitch, and it off the ground FAST...

With a total weight of over 12 pounds and a low rotor speed I was hoping it would climb into a lethargic stable hover...

It seems like it has tool much power and lift... I significantly reduced the total amount of pitch travel, but it goes from "on the ground" to "in the air" FAST...

What happens if you have too much rotor surface???

Are 700mm blades too big???

I think I will strap a couple of pounds of deck bolts to the skids and see if it helps next time...

Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
03-28-2008 01:52 AM
 
 
wilerbee
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

HS,

That sounds right ! You actually gain 20% more power without the flybar. You could adjust the throttle curve and limit the maximum power of your motor, or you could go down and start with 8S and try the power first. My cobra is a 60-90 size heli, using a Kontronik Tango 45-06 motor HV85 ESC on 8S1P 3850 mah cells. I run 660 main blades and it has plenty power already. It weighs 14-15 lbs RTF. Post some flying pics !!
03-28-2008 03:13 PM
 
 
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Scale Model RC Helicopters > Flybarless 700mm 10S4P Jet Ranger OH-58A Build Post (HeliCommand Sys)
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